Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action

MGM:R #017 - Portable Ops Pt. 8 - Portable Villains!

May 25, 2021 Metal Gear Mondays Season 2
MGM:R #017 - Portable Ops Pt. 8 - Portable Villains!
Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
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Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
MGM:R #017 - Portable Ops Pt. 8 - Portable Villains!
May 25, 2021 Season 2
Metal Gear Mondays

You've been briefed on your support team. Now it's time scrutinize the enemy. I want you to get as much intel on Gene and his men as you can. 

Tune in immediately and report your findings. (Contact us at our website to submit listener responses.)

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

Show Notes Transcript

You've been briefed on your support team. Now it's time scrutinize the enemy. I want you to get as much intel on Gene and his men as you can. 

Tune in immediately and report your findings. (Contact us at our website to submit listener responses.)

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

[00:00:00]
Here's to your listeners welcome back to another episode of Metal Gear Mondays Revengeance

[00:00:12]
where you'll find your favorite conversations around Metal Gear and Kojima related content

[00:00:16]
delivered to you through tactical podcast action. I'm your host Warren Minix and with

[00:00:21]
me as always are my two great friends and comrades.

[00:00:26]
Aww.

[00:00:27]
Chris Hampton how we doing?

[00:00:29]
Ahem.

[00:00:30]
Ahem.

[00:00:31]
Alright yeah.

[00:00:35]
Delightful.

[00:00:36]
Okay yeah it's been a few months my throat's dry.

[00:00:42]
You know.

[00:00:43]
Yeah.

[00:00:44]
Ay.

[00:00:45]
I love it.

[00:00:47]
And of course the third member of this party that you just heard a little mic check there

[00:00:52]
is Tori Cortez.

[00:00:54]
Hi Tori.

[00:00:55]
Check one too.

[00:00:56]
Check one too.

[00:00:57]
There it is.

[00:00:58]
Going freestyle if we have to.

[00:01:00]
We have to.

[00:01:03]
So yeah guys this is of course so this is episode eight so we will not be doing a story focused

[00:01:10]
episode this particular week.

[00:01:12]
We are back to a character focus and again like we've been doing with portable ops it's

[00:01:19]
tough to sort of pick on like one or two people so we went good guys bad guys this particular

[00:01:25]
episode will be focusing on the bad guys so what we probably will say we have the main

[00:01:33]
villains here and boss fights that we will see in the game so we probably won't talk about

[00:01:38]
Raikov or some of the rando soldiers or scientists and things like that so anybody that sort of

[00:01:43]
gets a boss fight or a little bit of character discussion throughout the game play I think

[00:01:50]
that's what we're going to talk about.

[00:01:52]
Yeah.

[00:01:53]
Do we have a patron or anything we wanted to bring up today Tori?

[00:01:58]
We sure do.

[00:02:02]
And that's a thing I totally remembered.

[00:02:07]
Tori's patron.

[00:02:10]
So just so everyone knows you know transparency and everything I am in a completely new space

[00:02:19]
with a completely new outlook on life for better or for worse it's been a fucking rough

[00:02:26]
one everyone as I'm sure you all know.

[00:02:30]
So I'm going to do a little bit of a commentary.

[00:02:33]
Do you?

[00:02:34]
I'll do a sub-patron shout out.

[00:02:36]
Yeah do it.

[00:02:38]
Yeah let's shout out our newest discord member.

[00:02:43]
Crozen.

[00:02:44]
Crozen.

[00:02:45]
Crozen.

[00:02:46]
What's up Crozen?

[00:02:47]
Crozen sounds like a Metal Gear Solid code name.

[00:02:49]
Hell yeah it does.

[00:02:50]
Maybe he could be on this villain list that we're about to discuss today.

[00:02:53]
Dude if Crozen is like somehow like a secret villain in the discord.

[00:02:58]
What is Crozen's superpower?

[00:03:01]
Yeah you think ice right?

[00:03:04]
I do.

[00:03:05]
Because it's frozen frozen right?

[00:03:06]
No that's wrong.

[00:03:08]
No though.

[00:03:10]
It's not crows either.

[00:03:13]
You would think maybe crows like crows.

[00:03:16]
No.

[00:03:17]
Sure.

[00:03:18]
Frozen crows.

[00:03:19]
Frozen crows.

[00:03:20]
Oh that's a twist.

[00:03:22]
That's where he gets you.

[00:03:24]
So basically Vulcan Raven?

[00:03:27]
Yes.

[00:03:28]
Yeah because it's a cold area.

[00:03:30]
No that would be Raven Vulcan.

[00:03:33]
Okay like this is.

[00:03:35]
Oh boy.

[00:03:36]
Listen guys I'm too fucked up for this.

[00:03:38]
I can't handle that level.

[00:03:40]
I'm not gonna lie.

[00:03:42]
Crozen.

[00:03:43]
Crozen chime in tell us your superpower and your evil plans since you are the newly appointed villain of the discord.

[00:03:51]
So now you're gonna have to be close with us.

[00:03:53]
See see me on that.

[00:03:55]
Evil plan you got there.

[00:03:57]
Yeah we're on to you pretty quickly big guys.

[00:04:00]
You better you know we're gonna talk later.

[00:04:03]
We're gonna set this up.

[00:04:05]
But yeah guys thanks we did actually get a couple of new patrons recently which is fantastic.

[00:04:10]
You guys are the best.

[00:04:11]
Way to go.

[00:04:12]
And we appreciate it so a little shill there.

[00:04:15]
Go us.

[00:04:16]
Put Patreon slash Metal Gear Mondays.

[00:04:18]
Get a discord.

[00:04:19]
Get some extra pods.

[00:04:20]
We're about to release our May movie of the month.

[00:04:24]
GM goes to the movies coming out we're doing the lighthouse so that way you guys have a little heads up what's going on.

[00:04:30]
You guys have anything else before we start talking villains.

[00:04:34]
I do actually I just want to say are you the shit show that has been the last year or more.

[00:04:42]
Been falling down on the early release job a little bit and everybody's been so fucking patient so I just want to say a huge thank you to all of our patrons and community members I know I know everybody's going through it a little bit right now but yeah thanks thanks for all your patients and I'm excited to be getting back into the gear.

[00:05:07]
Yes.

[00:05:09]
The meds will like your to pun to pun gear.

[00:05:12]
Yes video game.

[00:05:13]
Yes.

[00:05:14]
With a video game.

[00:05:16]
Yeah that's it there that's a pun for it.

[00:05:18]
Cheers I like that.

[00:05:20]
It's a video game it's a video game series that surprisingly people have heard of.

[00:05:25]
Why do I like that.

[00:05:26]
There are a way.

[00:05:27]
Oh he did it.

[00:05:30]
Into our first topic.

[00:05:31]
I think that's a great idea.

[00:05:39]
I like it.

[00:05:49]
So of course I don't know what order we were going to go in but I think starting with Python makes the most sense.

[00:05:57]
So we could get super factual if you'd like I made sure to add.

[00:06:01]
So of course Python is a war buddy of good old naked state from the Vietnam era and was an original member of Fox.

[00:06:08]
I'll tell you also Warren that looking at the credits of the game I misread the voice actors name.

[00:06:18]
So the voice actor for Python his name is Dwight Schultz.

[00:06:22]
Correct.

[00:06:23]
And I thought it was Dwight Schrute on a first pass.

[00:06:27]
If only.

[00:06:28]
I know that would that would be an interesting change to the game I think the tone would be slightly different.

[00:06:34]
And a huge opportunity for crossover coverage for us.

[00:06:38]
It's too bad it's not.

[00:06:40]
Yeah I don't know though man that's not bad.

[00:06:42]
Like if I guess in this circumstance naked snake would be Jim.

[00:06:47]
So Dwight and Jim pretty.

[00:06:49]
Yeah it's pretty accurate.

[00:06:50]
He's a little bit more all about the soldier piece whereas naked snake is a little bit more you know trying to use his heart in his mind and soul.

[00:06:58]
Does that mean MGS3 snake was jungle Jim.

[00:07:01]
Oh I like it.

[00:07:03]
I like it.

[00:07:04]
I like it.

[00:07:05]
That's another.

[00:07:06]
Hold on cheers to another pun.

[00:07:07]
Thank you.

[00:07:08]
I guess yeah if you guys cheers to mine we have to cheers.

[00:07:10]
I like it.

[00:07:11]
I like it.

[00:07:12]
So yeah so we obviously talked a little bit about Python and outside of him having a past with our main boy Nikki sneaky.

[00:07:21]
We he had that that dope exoskeleton suit that he would wear which also acted as like body armor but it was like liquid nitrogen because he lost the ability to control his body temperature.

[00:07:35]
Yeah this is the Mr. Freeze guy.

[00:07:37]
Yes.

[00:07:38]
So I thought it was I thought it was pretty great.

[00:07:42]
I will say a fun little like I guess lower bit is Python lost a poker game to snake and was unable to pay.

[00:07:48]
So that's still like a thing that like never got resolved between the two of them.

[00:07:53]
He was in money.

[00:07:54]
Yeah a little bit a little bit of poker money.

[00:07:56]
They don't say what type of poker game but I would gather.

[00:07:58]
Could be Texas hold them.

[00:08:00]
But yeah so so Python Python got the he had like a really bad injury in battle which cost him the ability to regulate his body temperature.

[00:08:08]
He constantly overheats I guess is the best way to say it.

[00:08:12]
And the only way to stop him from literally burning himself up.

[00:08:17]
He has to wear this exoskeleton that keeps him cold.

[00:08:20]
What makes him interesting though is I like that that could just be like a fun you know character thing we're expecting in a metal gear game but I like that he can weaponize his his suit.

[00:08:32]
He obviously uses an armor like the setting of the fight.

[00:08:35]
I know we had talked about it during the gameplay piece but like the ability to sort of like fog up the room and he can use it to like distract you or make it so you can't just come at him he can freeze your weapons like in your hand so you can't use them and you have to go like run to there's there's like heating towers from like some of the engines or something running in that warehouse where you fight him where you can like lean near them and that's how you like warm up the gun so you can use them again.

[00:09:02]
It's actually just like a pretty interesting I guess twist whatever you want to call it like mechanic you can add to the game into the fight that I think I think is pretty special which makes him like he's a pretty good boss fight like as far as what you expect from a portable

[00:09:18]
ops but he also has a little bit of lore to him.

[00:09:21]
I think he is probably the best design boss fight.

[00:09:25]
As far as a character you know I would say he's a caliber of the Cobra unit.

[00:09:32]
You know definitely like maybe even better than some members of the Cobra unit which ones.

[00:09:41]
Fear.

[00:09:42]
Oh let's not go back there.

[00:09:44]
I was just starting to find sweet release from that.

[00:09:48]
Yeah.

[00:09:49]
But you're right though that would be a nice swap.

[00:09:52]
Well what like Tori what imagine so imagine first off let's imagine MGS3 and imagine a boss like a boss fight with Python in MGS3 like what that would be like would it be like opposite the fury like do you think it would be like how he has a boss fight.

[00:10:10]
Like that nice long runway it wouldn't necessarily be in the jungle.

[00:10:14]
Be like kind of a nice little twist on things.

[00:10:16]
Yeah it does feel very reminiscent of the fury doesn't it.

[00:10:18]
I think that's the commonality in a lot of the Metal Gear Solid games is there's always going to be your Vulcan Raven or Fury.

[00:10:27]
There are just a few things that are are borrowed from each installment to the next right.

[00:10:33]
What I want to talk about even if just for a moment.

[00:10:36]
Sure.

[00:10:37]
That's how rad it is that he was obviously based on Hellraiser.

[00:10:44]
You would think right he's look his design his design is pretty dope I guess there are they they're implanted in his head to they're meant to cool him right like that.

[00:10:55]
Yeah they're not they're not there for any other reason right.

[00:10:58]
Well steam he's a little steamboat Willie.

[00:11:00]
Like choo choo.

[00:11:01]
Release release.

[00:11:02]
I'm coming snake.

[00:11:03]
I'm coming choo choo.

[00:11:05]
But in terms of like your your sick badass villains this one hits the mark more than any other one and except maybe I guess except maybe no who is obviously akin to Cyborg Ninja.

[00:11:20]
Yeah.

[00:11:21]
But like yeah Kojima has aimed for the slightly horrific on multiple occasions and I think in terms of a game that's trying to capture Kojima's vibe I guess for lack of a better word I think this character was designed to be a pretty cool villain.

[00:11:43]
Yeah.

[00:11:44]
And then he has that that lore bit that he's essentially now been sort of crafted to be like the anti snake.

[00:11:52]
Like I understand that Noel is also sort of designed but made more for the perfect soldier program but Python has essentially been like crafted to like outwardly express like he should he feels bad for all the shit he does but the end game is to take out big boss like naked

[00:12:11]
like that's what he's there for he's he's literally the anti snake.

[00:12:14]
He's the cold blooded assassin.

[00:12:17]
Okay.

[00:12:18]
All right.

[00:12:19]
Anybody got some Mr. Freeze quotes while we're here.

[00:12:24]
No I think there was allegedly enough of them in the previous episode.

[00:12:29]
Allegedly being the key word.

[00:12:31]
You never know if people come back and forth.

[00:12:33]
I don't want to.

[00:12:34]
Can't spoil it for anyone.

[00:12:36]
I see.

[00:12:37]
I thought you were saying it's up for debate whether that was alleged because I personally think it's a subjective thing I recognize but I personally think there weren't enough.

[00:12:48]
Oh yeah.

[00:12:49]
I agree.

[00:12:50]
That's just there must have been 10 more 10 more that he that he could have came up with that we could have used you know.

[00:12:55]
Look I'm sure we all want to blow off some steam about this topic.

[00:12:58]
Hey there it is.

[00:12:59]
Let's let's cool it.

[00:13:02]
Months away months away from the mic man and this is what we're coming back to with.

[00:13:10]
This is what you do and you this is what I do when you give me a.

[00:13:13]
I love it.

[00:13:14]
I make an ass of myself.

[00:13:16]
Well don't we all your are ass.

[00:13:19]
So I'm okay with that.

[00:13:21]
At least you're somebody's ass.

[00:13:23]
That's true.

[00:13:24]
So you can recruit Python in the game.

[00:13:27]
Apparently I did none of this.

[00:13:29]
I'm not gonna drink him.

[00:13:31]
Yeah so how does that work out like oh you know what you trained a copy of me.

[00:13:37]
He's on my side now.

[00:13:38]
We got two snakes.

[00:13:39]
We got two snakes.

[00:13:40]
What are you gonna do with CIA.

[00:13:43]
So I got to say it's funny you bring that up and this kind of happens in a lot of games and then we'll move on to the left or he's not as good.

[00:13:51]
Oh my God.

[00:13:52]
He's finally on your team.

[00:13:54]
It's such a bummer when games do that.

[00:13:56]
I'm not picking on on portable ops and bringing them to task for this but but it does seem like you would hope that there's more to it but he's just a not a reskin because that seems a little egregious but yeah he's just another playable character you don't have the ability to do anything special based on his special abilities you know he's just he's got the same attributes and things like that that other characters have but I still love him.

[00:14:22]
He's a great he's a great villain and his fight.

[00:14:25]
Everything is cool and I don't know if you guys have any last words for Python because honestly I don't know when we're going to bring him officially back up.

[00:14:36]
Dory what do you look like you have a thought here.

[00:14:39]
Sharis birth your thought baby.

[00:14:41]
She's so ready.

[00:14:42]
In front of us and my thought maybe let's poke it with a stick.

[00:14:45]
Okay that's hmm.

[00:14:49]
I have qualms about that last part.

[00:14:52]
Okay.

[00:14:53]
Sorry.

[00:14:54]
No it's okay.

[00:14:58]
The main thing about Python that I really want to highlight is online it says that his career is quarterback slash scout.

[00:15:09]
And I really want to talk about that quarterback scout quarterback.

[00:15:16]
Oh sorry not slash comma scout.

[00:15:19]
So first let's address the quarterback thing.

[00:15:23]
So could could he wear his football helmet.

[00:15:29]
Does he need it.

[00:15:30]
Another great question.

[00:15:32]
What would happen if he would collide like those things go deeper in.

[00:15:37]
Are they retractable.

[00:15:38]
What if he caught the football with his head.

[00:15:41]
You know they're by right there.

[00:15:44]
You know yeah I think his ball would burst.

[00:15:47]
Yeah I don't see him lasting very long.

[00:15:50]
Maybe they make him like he's back up QB so he feels important.

[00:15:54]
You know he's like on the right he's going to be on the bench every game he's got to show up.

[00:15:58]
Python but.

[00:16:00]
I bet he's got a very hot arm though.

[00:16:03]
Oh yeah probably it's got to cool off after the game.

[00:16:07]
You know it like he's got a suit for that.

[00:16:09]
Hopefully doesn't need any icy hot.

[00:16:11]
Oh my god.

[00:16:12]
Anyway we're in to answer your question.

[00:16:14]
No I have no final thoughts on Python.

[00:16:16]
Shit programming language next topic.

[00:16:21]
So which will lead us to.

[00:16:25]
No.

[00:16:42]
Our second bad guy that we're going to discuss tonight.

[00:16:54]
No.

[00:16:55]
No is interesting so what we learn about no in this particular game is that he child soldier from Mozambique.

[00:17:02]
CIA CIA Special Forces unit Fox.

[00:17:05]
He knew naked snake from when he was a kid and was sort of involved in that and sort of went through.

[00:17:11]
I guess like the winter soldier style program they programmed him he is a weapon that they can plan to turn on and off as they need.

[00:17:22]
And Gene even sort of like mentions how annoying it is that they have to like reboot him and it takes.

[00:17:28]
It's not like an instantaneous switch flip for him to go.

[00:17:32]
But as far as I guess story goes or character beats.

[00:17:39]
No no is pretty interesting and I do like that they made him more than one boss fight in in the game like I like that he is a big driving factor in how some of the story goes and if you're listening to these in order.

[00:17:54]
He is the reason why you know he helps snake it out of the bad situation that we left him off before we get to the next part of the story.

[00:18:04]
He was a big factor in basically getting in there because he didn't complete his mission yet which was kill snake.

[00:18:11]
So yeah good Chris.

[00:18:14]
Well you know I mean when your man's pinned down like that just get to help him out.

[00:18:19]
I'm sure snake will return the favor later on if no was ever pinned down by something to get him out of it.

[00:18:28]
Definitely.

[00:18:29]
I wonder if that I don't I don't think that'll happen.

[00:18:32]
I'm not too worried about that.

[00:18:33]
He seemed he seemed pretty pretty self sustaining.

[00:18:35]
I don't see anything.

[00:18:36]
Yeah.

[00:18:37]
I don't see any issues.

[00:18:38]
Tour do you see any issues.

[00:18:39]
I don't see anything.

[00:18:40]
I'm not too worried about it.

[00:18:41]
I think he's good guys.

[00:18:42]
I think I think he's solid.

[00:18:44]
Yeah spoilers which is why he kills naked snake in this game and it ends like no wins.

[00:18:50]
Fully intact.

[00:18:53]
Yeah just just one of those real genuine human heroes.

[00:19:00]
Human heroes.

[00:19:02]
Mike the whole game was about null in the end.

[00:19:06]
No you didn't know but well so for a thing though this that's it's pretty interesting though because

[00:19:12]
it goes so spoilers in a sense but we've we've certainly pulled the wool over this is he is Frank Jaeger he is we learn later through a lot of games but he is the cyborg ninja from future games or previous games whatever you want to call it but following his journey is is pretty

[00:19:31]
interesting and I got to say so you were bringing it up before Tori what what do you think I like his like sort of strider here you character design he's got like the dope sash floating in the wind and all that what did you think of his character design.

[00:19:46]
I think it's hot cyborg cyborg sex it up.

[00:19:52]
No I just getting blank blank looks from both of you and that's really an inviting nothing like a cyborg sex it up.

[00:20:00]
To like get your weeknight started you know sorry I'm stuck on Observer somehow.

[00:20:06]
There you go.

[00:20:08]
No I love the character design I think it's very reminiscent of well I guess it can't be reminiscent of something that came after it.

[00:20:16]
It does though remind me a whole lot of of riding 2.0.

[00:20:22]
In middle of your solid four right.

[00:20:25]
Sure I think it's it's.

[00:20:31]
I don't know I wish I knew more about Frank Jaeger before this because of his character design.

[00:20:39]
He is so reminiscent of riding in his final role that I wonder if there are any similarities there kind of like the whole right of riding thing right and the only reason I say that is because he's blonde.

[00:20:52]
There's literally nothing else it's just huge similarity.

[00:20:57]
I don't know what's with the straps all over the place.

[00:21:02]
Cyber sexual.

[00:21:03]
I don't know man he I I'm going to be honest with you man I dig his look he's got like the red sleeve right he's got like he's like a really cool like sort of color contrast going on I wouldn't say it's tactical.

[00:21:17]
But the straps and the the the yeah that giant Rambo blade and all that.

[00:21:23]
Yeah I'm going to be honest he he does look pretty especially coming off of Python.

[00:21:29]
I love his character design.

[00:21:31]
Yo he's hot.

[00:21:32]
He is he does he looks good.

[00:21:34]
He's got a nice little physique going he clearly.

[00:21:37]
He's got a huge bulge.

[00:21:38]
Oh yeah.

[00:21:39]
I just gotta point that out.

[00:21:40]
Definitely.

[00:21:41]
Looks picture.

[00:21:42]
Probably like like a low carb guy.

[00:21:45]
He's probably on the keto diet.

[00:21:47]
David Bowie labyrinth.

[00:21:50]
Well like you guys this bull.

[00:21:52]
I never thought that would come up in our discussions but look at that.

[00:21:56]
I'm not surprised.

[00:21:57]
Huge.

[00:21:58]
That's a bulge man.

[00:21:59]
Well I mean here's the thing man.

[00:22:01]
He does I gotta say he you know it's unfortunate that he covers up the bottom half of his face because like I said pretty good looking guy and is a hell of a fighter.

[00:22:11]
So if you don't know how to like cheese this guy it's not an easy either fight isn't really that easy.

[00:22:16]
You literally have to you literally have to because he dodges all your fucking bullets.

[00:22:21]
But yeah so no no is is cool.

[00:22:24]
He is like a really nice he's like a nice ace in the hole for like a gene to have in his like arsenal.

[00:22:33]
I like that he is like sort of how he handles things and he does have his own agency which ends up being you know a flaw for gene but how how they go in and again part of what we talked about with this the he has a past with naked snake it actually these are people that mean something to the guy you're playing like the Cobra units fantastic and a lot of the other villains and some of the other games are super fun.

[00:22:59]
They're really cool.

[00:23:00]
They have some awesome boss fights but we kept saying it like as we were going through the game like man at least I'm a little invested and like what is going on with this guy like yeah I know it's Frank Yeager like okay I played those games but what happened to him like why is he even like this because that's not the vibe I got when I played the previous games that take place later in the timeline that he would have been no.

[00:23:23]
Right.

[00:23:24]
Like that's just not something I would have expected and the name no.

[00:23:27]
It's a pretty fucking bad ass name.

[00:23:30]
If if I'm being honest.

[00:23:33]
Chris you sounded like you had something you wanted to say.

[00:23:38]
He was ready.

[00:23:39]
No I think.

[00:23:43]
My thoughts on this or no.

[00:23:45]
Oh.

[00:23:46]
404 not.

[00:23:49]
I mean we talk at work we talked about.

[00:23:54]
Cyborg Ninja a lot and we're going to be talking a lot more about Cyborg Ninja but his you know his involvement in this game is pretty limited.

[00:24:04]
You know it's almost like a cameo.

[00:24:07]
In a way.

[00:24:09]
Yeah.

[00:24:10]
It's strange to say like the experience of seeing some of these players in the game series.

[00:24:16]
That you're familiar with you know it's it's like a cameo.

[00:24:21]
Which is a very surreal experience.

[00:24:24]
Yeah kind of like the the whole.

[00:24:27]
Every battle you have with us a lot and Metal Gear Solid 3 you know you're not going to fucking kill him right.

[00:24:34]
So it's interesting to see how their rivalry yet.

[00:24:39]
Slash brotherhood evolves.

[00:24:44]
Oh yeah this dude you should just fuck already right.

[00:24:47]
Yeah or at least a really a really good hug right just like a really big at minimum at least just there is a lot of little.

[00:24:58]
Little cheek cheek kiss just a little.

[00:25:02]
Yeah.

[00:25:03]
Just a little hey man I love you you know.

[00:25:06]
Just just open just open understanding and ideally an ass with tongue.

[00:25:12]
Oh with tongue yes.

[00:25:14]
Little tongue kiss on the cheek of course.

[00:25:16]
Licking each other's cheeks.

[00:25:18]
It's just pull that little face covering down just a tiny bit.

[00:25:22]
Little tongue on there.

[00:25:24]
Does anybody still listening at this point.

[00:25:26]
That's what I want to know.

[00:25:28]
Yeah we lost all of us but that's a shame.

[00:25:34]
I love it.

[00:25:35]
I absolutely love it.

[00:25:36]
But yeah so I look as far as like a super henchman goes and all the stuff that we get out of out of a.

[00:25:45]
I guess yeah I guess he's just he's kind of like an ex machina in a sense like just throw a null at it and we can move the story forward but it works pretty good pretty good for me and.

[00:25:53]
I do like I do like how he helps things move on which we can then move on to our next villain slash villains villainess is.

[00:26:07]
Yeah we know how Chris feels about it.

[00:26:23]
So.

[00:26:45]
This is a little trope in my opinion.

[00:26:47]
Okay so Elisa Nersella then so trope.

[00:26:51]
You you actually we talked about this.

[00:26:55]
Yeah you you saw it coming a mile away.

[00:26:57]
You were surprised you didn't like how it was done.

[00:27:01]
We'll catch us up Chris.

[00:27:02]
What's going on here.

[00:27:03]
I mean it's just the other thing.

[00:27:06]
Right.

[00:27:07]
It's recycled.

[00:27:08]
Okay.

[00:27:09]
Sure.

[00:27:10]
It's just that again.

[00:27:13]
It's just that again.

[00:27:14]
Which is.

[00:27:17]
To say almost like.

[00:27:20]
It's Merrill again.

[00:27:24]
It's James Bond again.

[00:27:27]
I don't know.

[00:27:28]
Yeah I think I think there's a little.

[00:27:31]
Well a little bit more to these two.

[00:27:34]
They're the villainy thing right and that's kind of this center.

[00:27:38]
It's more of a central part of the plot of this game.

[00:27:41]
That character.

[00:27:42]
Yeah.

[00:27:43]
Yeah.

[00:27:44]
She's definitely like a linchpin the both of them.

[00:27:47]
This idea of a double agent.

[00:27:50]
Is not new to the series.

[00:27:53]
Right.

[00:27:54]
But it is double agent who is unaware of the fact that they are a double agent.

[00:27:59]
That's the new part.

[00:28:00]
That's the slightly new part but it is just a step up from what's already been done.

[00:28:04]
It's not.

[00:28:05]
Very original.

[00:28:06]
And it's a Manchurian candidate reference right.

[00:28:10]
I guess so.

[00:28:11]
It's been several years since I've seen that movie.

[00:28:14]
Coach Ema probably likes that movie right.

[00:28:16]
Wouldn't be surprised.

[00:28:17]
I would imagine.

[00:28:18]
I believe it's on his list.

[00:28:19]
Like the OG obviously.

[00:28:20]
But I think it is on his list.

[00:28:23]
He loves those kind of movies.

[00:28:26]
But I don't know.

[00:28:27]
So with.

[00:28:28]
I guess we have to talk about them at the same person.

[00:28:31]
Elisa Nersala.

[00:28:32]
They.

[00:28:33]
They.

[00:28:34]
Elisa is the one that sort of works with us.

[00:28:36]
She's like a medic.

[00:28:37]
She talks about her backstory with.

[00:28:40]
With like the reason why she's even involved is Jean actually saved her from a war torn

[00:28:45]
country and they talk about the nuclear disaster in the Yoram Mountains like he is actually

[00:28:50]
in a sense a good guy to her right.

[00:28:54]
Like that's the.

[00:28:55]
That's the one thing that at least for me.

[00:28:58]
Like her involvement was more of well yeah I got to help you know this guy is clearly

[00:29:03]
doing the right thing.

[00:29:05]
He's saving people like I believe that Elisa deserve to be saved.

[00:29:09]
The only thing I'm trying to remember if it's in the story or not how they play it out was

[00:29:13]
that.

[00:29:14]
Elisa Nersala was she always Elisa and Ursula and one was just more the prominent like it

[00:29:21]
was.

[00:29:22]
Elisa was more the prominent but Jean noticed she had that alternate psychic ability Ursula

[00:29:28]
and found out how to like tap into that.

[00:29:30]
Or did he just like hit the jackpot by getting this like 10 year old girl that ended up being

[00:29:37]
like a super telekinetic alter ego personality thing.

[00:29:42]
Did they did they explicitly explain that I don't think they do.

[00:29:46]
I don't I don't think they do however so I can't speak for the telekinesis right.

[00:29:51]
I mean that's very of the Kojima world to just have some sort of super human ability

[00:29:58]
right.

[00:29:59]
But in terms of trauma it's very real and very likely that as a young girl if she experienced

[00:30:07]
trauma in that nature that her personalities would adapt that she would have one for just

[00:30:18]
dealing with the world and another for whatever else there is beyond that you know what I

[00:30:23]
mean.

[00:30:24]
Sure.

[00:30:25]
So yeah so here we go so she she was raised in a lab in East Germany or as a Lisa she

[00:30:33]
was and she developed her ESPN psychic abilities and Jean freed her during a CIA mission to

[00:30:40]
capture psychic inmates from the facility and bring them to America.

[00:30:43]
That was the initial plan when it came to that and then he took them both to say that

[00:30:48]
you're going to help me establish my army armies heaven.

[00:30:55]
So that yeah that I don't know I didn't really get the vibe that she was I mean I get the

[00:30:59]
trope piece that you guys are bringing up but I don't know this one felt a little bit

[00:31:03]
more sort of specific and I'm trying to think unique and it might just be because Tara Strong

[00:31:10]
is pretty convincing with them and I did appreciate the her eyes would change color when you knew

[00:31:16]
which one was which and I we kind of cringed a little but then also like defended it in

[00:31:21]
a way that was just a little bit of a surprise that snake clearly is just it's not an attraction

[00:31:26]
or anything weird because she's very young and he's not he really just wants to help

[00:31:30]
her she really bonds with him based on the fact that he wasn't just going to murder everyone

[00:31:35]
you know he was he was very not Jean in that sort of circumstance I just appreciated the

[00:31:41]
how little time they get to build a relationship and it was believable enough that it didn't

[00:31:47]
really seem this in three other games previous now the double agent stuff the telekinetic

[00:31:52]
stuff like all the stuff the boss fight stuff of it all is pretty you know pretty fair but

[00:31:57]
I guess we should only talk about Ursula as far as a villain because Alisa is not the

[00:32:02]
villain at all she helped us a ton throughout the game and it's interesting though I guess

[00:32:08]
so how did you guys feel with the with the boss fight because she ends up being the one

[00:32:12]
who's piloting Metal Gear Raxa so we basically know during the fight if we win she's going

[00:32:19]
to die like we don't really have a choice to go about that was that at least like an added

[00:32:24]
thing like it wasn't like a a dandelion distress like oh you know the big machines holding

[00:32:30]
her you know behind a cage or something so we have to defeat it to save like if we win

[00:32:34]
she dies like there's no way around it is that at least like a fun twist Chris yeah I think

[00:32:40]
so I mean it gives you some stake in the game I don't mean to be so critical about it really

[00:32:47]
what I'm just in trying to express is I feel like Elise and Ursula don't really have any

[00:32:52]
new ideas of their own in how they're expressed as characters but they do recycle a lot from

[00:33:01]
other big characters in the Metal Gear series and kind of roll some of those up and interesting

[00:33:08]
combination of ideas you know like it's got a little bit of the boss it's got a little

[00:33:15]
bit of psycho man is it's got some of that Eva stuff in there to it's got all of the all

[00:33:24]
like crying wolf and and the other what are they called beauties yeah beauty and the beast

[00:33:30]
beauty and the beast unit yeah yeah it's it's it's that same I guess some some entity taking

[00:33:41]
advantage of traumatic pasts and breeding these soldiers which is this one this one does feel

[00:33:47]
a little less cringe than some of those beauty and the beast ones and oh sure but it's very

[00:33:52]
similar predates it but it is very similar you're right definitely plays as like a template

[00:33:58]
on what to do for all yeah yeah but did tour did you like the at least like the the gene

[00:34:06]
piece of it because that's like the one difference I guess they could say that they were saved

[00:34:09]
like when we were comparing them to the beauty and the beast but as far as like Ursula at

[00:34:16]
Gene's side kind of a thing like did that at least make sense to you like is it just because

[00:34:21]
genes that charismatic due to his stuff that will get into before this episode's over or do you think

[00:34:27]
she actually believed in his cause or anything like that like is that the vibe you got out

[00:34:31]
outside of them just telling us this response is going to be very colored by the fact that

[00:34:35]
I'm a woman I think in my head canon it's more of that she had that traumatic past and

[00:34:43]
he was there to pray upon it and therefore she didn't have I'm she was being groomed

[00:34:50]
essentially you know what I mean is is the case of it the unfortunate case of it so she

[00:34:54]
adapted and to her that meant putting on one face when you have to do certain things and

[00:35:03]
I don't know I guess I guess I don't know if there's any hypnosis involved from gene I suspect

[00:35:12]
yes because of later events but clearly there is a side of that one being that we know Alisa

[00:35:22]
slash Ursula is and she's allowed to express herself when caring for another person but

[00:35:31]
then there's also that other self that obeys you know what I mean so I don't know I think this

[00:35:38]
is an interesting while it is played that she is a double agent of some sort I agree with you

[00:35:44]
Warren this is a new take on it and it's it's a take that I feel like needs to be represented

[00:35:52]
because it's not an uncommon situation for women to be in definitely maybe why is why I asked you

[00:36:00]
sorry maybe it is maybe I don't know I'm just I appreciate that and speaking truths here don't

[00:36:07]
worry about me we only bring truth here that's the intent so yeah I I like that and I did I will say

[00:36:16]
as far as the boss fight we kind of I don't know if we like harped on it but we did sort of call it

[00:36:21]
like a battle with a big room yeah it wasn't really it wasn't really like innovative in a

[00:36:29]
sense but again the one thing I'm gonna always like push is that the story bit like they find a

[00:36:35]
narrative way to make it work no one else can fly the Raxa because it needs to have a little bit of

[00:36:40]
telekinetic energy to make it move like they win a Skoronsky tried to use it he physically couldn't

[00:36:48]
because he didn't have the ability to control it the way it needs to be controlled so Jean found a

[00:36:52]
way to sort of create his weapon but still needing like Ursula as the key to like start the car kind of

[00:37:00]
thing like I at least like that but again it it still ended up being just a pretty the boss fight it

[00:37:07]
wasn't that fantastic outside of the narrative of if you win she dies like and you have to accept that

[00:37:13]
which is pretty no powerful in its own way at this point while I agree with that it was an easier

[00:37:20]
boss fight at what I can't say that any of these boss fights were particularly challenging in a

[00:37:26]
specific way because of the limitations of the system which is played yeah however I did enjoy the

[00:37:37]
bit of nostalgia that fighting a Metal Gear brought back to this game and yeah it's gonna be simpler

[00:37:43]
because we're used to having like seven different rounds having to do this one maneuver and then switch

[00:37:52]
to a different maneuver and you know it's a specific like code that you have to follow and this one was

[00:37:57]
much much more punctuated I guess in a sense but it just it was that nice little bit of Metal Gear

[00:38:06]
that you're after right yeah and it's a cool name to Rajah Metal Gear Rajah I think that's a cool

[00:38:15]
it's a cool way to say it so Chris any last words on our twin our twin sisters I thought you were

[00:38:24]
about to say twin snakes there for somebody had to I almost did and I was like that's not right that's

[00:38:30]
not correct Martin nope no I mean all in all I think they're good characters you know I think all the

[00:38:40]
characters maybe not all I think most of the characters in this game a solid 90% of them are really

[00:38:47]
well-written very very fleshed out and I think I would take Eliza Ursula every single day of the week

[00:38:56]
every single day of the week has yeah I swear to God hmm okay yeah I will get into it when we get to the

[00:39:05]
next game in the series because I guess that's where she's the most focus right but yeah it you're right it did

[00:39:12]
yeah I think I can safely agree with you it feels like there's more behind them yeah then just pause you

[00:39:21]
know we are I guess there's no reason to get into the story of that totally different game yeah as far as like

[00:39:27]
like that I agree I know Kojima has a complex relationship with female characters in his games I think

[00:39:35]
you know at the time it felt like oh this guy writes female characters really well they have complex

[00:39:44]
stories and that's not something you saw a lot of in video games but yeah you know with time as we progress

[00:39:53]
sorry he's a horn dog it's alright yeah yeah I mean I think like it was always interesting because it was

[00:40:02]
like I'm well developed character you know I feel like it very I think it bears mentioning that there was a

[00:40:13]
certain gesture happening when Chris said very well developed like Jessica Rabbit hey but yeah no kidding

[00:40:26]
you know Eliza and Ursula are some of the better handled in my opinion yeah it is a bit tedious how a lot of the women

[00:40:37]
in this game series they all like have a tragic background but to be fair everybody in this game not just the women

[00:40:48]
but every single character in this game has had like they were a child soldier they have you know fucked up in school

[00:40:56]
or something and a bomb was dropped on them or whatever or they were like test subjects I don't know pick your

[00:41:06]
your tragedy porn backstory and it exists in this franchise I guess at the end of the day it's good that women

[00:41:17]
characters are included yeah and they are written to be strong characters which I will always appreciate over the flaws that

[00:41:28]
they are manifest with yeah sure especially when it's they become strong based on like their own agency to

[00:41:38]
absolutely they don't need it they don't need somebody else even let alone a man they don't need anybody to make themselves

[00:41:45]
interesting or build off of the you know the backstory bingo that we play with them it's just like it hits one of the 12

[00:41:52]
that we're used to hearing that does yeah you're right though that does and it that's par for the course this these two just happen to

[00:41:58]
have you know probably like a little bit higher of a tier of that focus which gives them just a little more juice and I

[00:42:05]
think the interaction with the main characters is I think like some of that dialogue for what you know for what it is on a

[00:42:12]
PSP in 2006 it's pretty good yeah I I like the I like the relationship that is built like I did feel pretty confident that I was

[00:42:23]
going on the journey that they wanted me in the game it didn't feel rushed didn't feel out of place agreed so I like that

[00:42:31]
good job now the big here's the big left turn because this this one I'm trying to understand so we're going to move on now

[00:42:38]
we're going to move on to cunning him

[00:42:40]
OK so cunning him so he was a member of Fox during this whole thing he's a member right he was known as boa but now he's

[00:43:06]
he's the you know the interrogation specialist and honestly he has an awesome setup like that opening cut scene where you're

[00:43:15]
sort of established of like damn this art style for this like comic tell tale is great the voice acting is really good he's got

[00:43:22]
such a good voice for what he does he has that like peg leg like you hear the kink kink when he's walking in the scenes and all that

[00:43:31]
he's just got so much like of the little like texture to him that just gives him that but it is I still get confused with cunning

[00:43:40]
him based off of his like his motivations for the game so before we like roll into that but so he was a big fan of the boss and he

[00:43:49]
knew everything about big boss he became part of the CIA Department of Defense he's like really into it and he had you know he got

[00:43:59]
his own sneaking suit he's like a member like he's a true member of the team and he becomes obsessed because he he basically needs

[00:44:07]
the philosophers legacy like that's that's like his whole mission and yeah obviously it's not for like personal reasons per se

[00:44:16]
but outside of like that story stuff Tori what did you think of you seem to have been in a great when I was talking about it but

[00:44:24]
what did you think of cunning him as far as like a character or a villain in this game well first I want to talk about that voice acting

[00:44:32]
that's where I really that's where my ears perked up I want to give a credit to Noah Nelson who is credited as having voiced

[00:44:41]
cunning him I just I don't know it's it's one of those voices that you hear and just go ah yeah that's that's a care like that character

[00:44:52]
is rooted in this just you hear that voice even long after you've played it I can still hear his voice in my head as far as a villain I the first thing

[00:45:05]
I thought while hearing you go through his backstory is that he's in a way he's just as obsessed as no about you know completing the mission getting the

[00:45:21]
philosophers no is obviously more programmed it's a need it's you know that person is not complete without this with cunning him it's more

[00:45:33]
like there's a desired passion driven behind it and it just made me so curious I guess about what his characters deeper motivations were you know what I mean

[00:45:45]
I mean it's one thing to be roped up in this whole jeans armies have in plan whatever but what is it about the philosophers that drives him so madly and again maybe credit to the performance it was just I don't know I liked I liked the interactions we had with him

[00:46:03]
yeah his little interrogation thing is pretty dope if you apply the right pressure like he's just got such cool like he's got you know a little cliche but it's pretty fucking dope sounds good Chris what do you what do you think of him did you like it I liked his little I like this yeah he was pretty fucking

[00:46:18]
I mean so interestingly enough cutting him is also a quarterback dope so course he is there you go I can't believe that cutting him and I don't have that in common that just blows my mind yeah it's amazing yeah they went to the same college you know yeah and so cutting him is kind of a reference to snatcher oh no shit yeah

[00:46:47]
at least by name yeah definitely the character cutting him in stature all has that same mustache okay sure the difference is he's a white guy black guy and also in stature that cutting him is a former Fox on member two that's for oh my god that's right that's right I keep forgetting this podcast hasn't done

[00:47:15]
snatcher we've just talked about it a we should do snatcher I really want to let's do it snatcher snatcher could be fun I have that I have that a OST on vinyl it's good yeah yeah I love how the people who created this game have all these they themselves are fans of

[00:47:36]
Kojima's work so there's all these little like neat references and I think that lends itself to the strength of the game you know they borrow ideas from the creator itself and use them in these interesting combinations so here you have like another type of like

[00:47:58]
cutting him he switched sides like he's the bad guy same with the well spoilers snatcher but

[00:48:08]
yeah yeah maybe

[00:48:10]
let's not talk about that

[00:48:12]
just in case

[00:48:14]
but yeah I don't know

[00:48:17]
I find the interrogation stuff in Metal Gear games to be a little rapey

[00:48:23]
maybe that's just me but I feel like cutting him was the least rapey of all the interrogations that's happened in Metal Gear Solid

[00:48:33]
agreed so I will give him credit for that

[00:48:38]
that's a good point yeah he's violent I guess in a sense but he's not yeah he's not he's not gross just he's like mad he's like mad crazy mad

[00:48:49]
yeah it's very interesting and again I guess we can we can spoil it now because I guess you're gonna listen to the next episode as we go through this but

[00:48:59]
when you sort of like learn that he's been he's anti CIA now he's DoD he's Department of Defense because of how poorly he was treated and he lost his leg and all that stuff that was going on

[00:49:12]
I will get into we don't have to talk a ton about it because we haven't technically done it as far as episodes proper if you're listening in order

[00:49:20]
what do we think about this boss fight though

[00:49:23]
flying platform you're on an elevator

[00:49:27]
I don't know I mean I get that he's got one leg so I appreciate that they were trying to make it different than some of the other fights because they've been very hand to hand very

[00:49:38]
environmental I guess would be the best way to put it I just want to put this out there Warren

[00:49:43]
go ahead I know you know it's representation is great right yeah I have no problems with representation but this dude they're like oh you just have a fucking leg

[00:49:56]
there was a dude that's a whole fucking robot they replaced this whole damn body in this game there's like people you would think steak has a rocket arm

[00:50:07]
in five and they're like trying to make a big deal out about this guy not having I just don't buy it for a second man they like yeah oh sorry we'll just clone you another one and then put a new launcher on it

[00:50:22]
you would think you would think they could have done some real interesting stuff with this boss fight though like imagine if they had some sort of like grind house like has a chain saw for a leg and he comes out with some drop kicks that would be sick

[00:50:37]
yeah yeah they could have like yeah we talked off Mike about this boss fight before Tory just little peep behind the curtain guys we haven't recorded the final episode yet but I know you laughed at like some of his like voice lines and stuff during the boss fight and all that but the

[00:50:52]
the platform yeah the flying platform and all that I don't know what did you like the fight because I don't think we've actually discussed that part between us and the listeners I thought it made sense given what we saw in snake eater with those same platforms

[00:51:09]
or the river and other places I don't know look at my hair guys it's fucking crazy right now sorry I love it you know what though they do give him the Davey Crockett yes okay so that was that was one thing I wanted to talk about if you were if you are patient and resourceful with those this is pretty chill boss fight if you are

[00:51:39]
frantic and blow through those it's challenging so this is one of those that's like you are your own worst enemy you could do it it's definitely possible but you could also fuck it up pretty easily yeah

[00:51:54]
Tory to your point I found that when I fucked it up it was often easier to just restart the fight

[00:52:00]
uh huh yeah yeah I'm not above doing that myself trying to finish it yeah

[00:52:06]
in war Chris there is no reset button yeah but that's not what we do in here

[00:52:13]
yeah yeah we're playing metal gear man

[00:52:17]
that's awesome but after this fight right

[00:52:23]
Cunningham has that little speech where he's talking about how snake is following the script and doing what they they want him to do

[00:52:36]
and I believe it's it's hinted that he got that information from major zero himself

[00:52:44]
mmm yeah

[00:52:47]
I kind of took that too I got that vibe okay what gave you that vibe because I didn't catch that

[00:52:54]
well so Ocelot talks about the script with zero at the end of the credits okay

[00:53:04]
and they're talking about so like them talking about it and they say that zero is the one

[00:53:13]
that's I do remember the same man with the code name is yeah okay I just didn't piece those things together okay cool

[00:53:23]
yeah yeah there's also he's like the secret like it's been zero all along yeah and they definitely ride that narrative through the end of the story

[00:53:33]
yeah exactly yeah but he's overall a pretty great character I there's some he has really high highs

[00:53:43]
and I think it's unfair to like throw him you know under the rug as a as a character because I don't like his boss fight that much

[00:53:51]
but I think the narrative piece and like where he where he like fits in is is pretty dope I like how he how he ties in and again

[00:54:01]
when we did the teaser I he had to be in it like everything he does is like full of it's just fun to listen to him and sometimes you kind of agree with him

[00:54:10]
yeah dude where the fuck's the legacy I want to know what's going on here give me the legacy this sucks it's it's interesting to me and I liked I liked

[00:54:19]
cunning him I thought he was pretty good it's it's interesting that he was like the like the the be villain like he's right before the final boss

[00:54:27]
I was kind of surprised that they needed to do it that way but you know it was still fun and I again hit his his involvement in like the

[00:54:37]
the Fox of it the CIA of it and all that I he's dope I like coming in now this is where I think this is where we're going to have the most chatter

[00:54:50]
because now we are moving to I feel like the man of the hour because we haven't really talked about him too too much outside of some of the story bits and this is Jean

[00:55:00]
yeah so Jean

[00:55:18]
Jean is pretty cool well we'll complain about him a little bit later if you guys are cool with that I do so what I what I like about Jean is I appreciate that he sort of he's sort of the reason why people would argue the like canon of like the story of this right because he could sway a whole people to tell him this is what happened even if that's not what happened so I like that

[00:55:46]
I like that that's sort of like an unreliable narrator that keeps everybody honest so you can believe whatever you want to believe because there's factors at play I love the idea of the like trickling of the voice like the vocal parasite right if he if they have a means to do that that's pretty good foreshadowing for what could happen in future games and I like that he has been around since day one with the boss and things like that he has been around this whole time

[00:56:13]
his boss fights pretty dope but so Chris you seem to disagree with me so do you want to talk about his plan is that like your issue with them or is it his design I think it's just his design you know it's very boring in my opinion

[00:56:32]
okay like the other a compared to Python especially in this game like then the boss fight it's just not really interesting

[00:56:45]
okay yeah he seems like a vanilla yeah a lot like he's just we're rocking a coat and a break kind of a thing weak a lot a week oh that was mean

[00:56:56]
what do you think Tori like the I is it the look do you like him dislike him what are you thinking

[00:57:05]
think I have to agree with Chris on this one I don't know it's also the fact that the arena is so small which I guess provides a certain challenge which is fine I don't know it was just a very yeah it was underwhelming that being said like I had a

[00:57:26]
difficult time with it for the first few rounds of it and then once I found my stride it was yeah it was I mean most of the boss fights in this game are they're okay but you're on a PlayStation portable you know

[00:57:46]
yeah yeah at the end of the day that's just gonna affect the boss battle you don't have the same

[00:57:53]
what if the boss battle was a card game and you had to beat him instead that would be because he has good reflexes right so it have to be like like a draw like a like a war game yeah I'm trying to think like something you have to be quick with to beat him

[00:58:09]
well that's a master strategist right sure yeah you just play risk right stritego against them that could have been a cool little boss fight

[00:58:22]
like a final fight is just a final fight is a tactics for the last boss fight you have your whole team versus teens and you're like war

[00:58:34]
that's pretty dope I gotta say you guys are slaying me now I was feeling pretty high on Jean well oh yeah we just damaged that

[00:58:42]
well no in a nice way because as as you guys are talking about I'm like yeah the reflexes thing while the first couple times I like the idea he can throw that like I love how he looks the animations of him throwing those knives really quickly and how quick he can move

[00:58:55]
but as I'm going back I'm like it kind of reminds me of those like shitty late Resident Evil movies where Wesker has like the super speed and like some of those games and yeah I keep forgetting that he's he's also this master strategist he's supposed to be like I mean

[00:59:12]
he's supposed to be the successor that's a big fucking deal and you know I don't know about successor well I'm just telling you what he says I'm not giving him right but he's he's designed to be that like that's his intent let's not forget this is the first iteration of it too this is you know phase one of this project but I you know we'll find out what it comes to be

[00:59:42]
but this like it makes sense it sucks yes but it also makes sense this is their first attempt at it and the story you know yeah I was I did I do like that hypnotic speech though I think that's that's an interesting I don't know maybe it wasn't done beautifully but as far as the concept of being able to rally an army and to amplify that well it's a pretty bad pun but to amplify that to make it work in that sense I kind of like

[01:00:12]
that but it doesn't have a lasting effect which is why the it's a it's the whole linchpin of the game is like just convince him to go against gene and you'll get a bunch of soldiers because he's not doing it with real ideals he's doing it because he has a parasite that takes over people's minds yeah

[01:00:28]
like with this speech like it's cool but it does sort of you think about it for half a second and it kind of loses its uh you know I mean it's luster I just I personally think his contribution to the story is really cool yes I just didn't really care for his design or the boss fight that much

[01:00:48]
but you know story wise that's all that stuff is really cool ESP the parasites and oh my god like it's got to get to comparative but it's done way better than skull face in old five later on down the road yeah like the voice parasites are handled much better from a narrative perspective in this story because it has a real impact

[01:01:18]
you know it's not some abstract like everybody who speaks English is going to die thing it's like no this dude will just take dudes from you he's the he's the like any of you ever play that RTS game age of empires of course I have the religion guys are there stick yeah he's out there he's like

[01:01:39]
lololololololololololololololololololololololoutheast them to his like these are my guys now like plankton right yeah yeah like plankton I mean yeah maybe that's ooh maybe that's a thing well plankton I like that I will throw out there so look it's just

[01:02:00]
teleporting but I like that it's called zero shift just a really cool new teleportation or moving really quickly I like that because I think what dragon ball calls an instant transmission I think you can like shing and it makes like a little you got like little lines in the air and you can go somewhere else but zero shift is pretty dope I like that and it basically

[01:02:21]
means that like he can even if you could read his mind he moves so fast that he could still kill you which is displayed in the game and I like that like that's there's some cool shit there but you're right and it's interesting like I said for him for him to be for all the bosses in my eyes that I bring them up like a peg or two is based on story like how they interact with the characters gene I like him for a lot of the story and then I don't know what it is and we'll get more in the

[01:02:51]
end to it when we talk about the end of the game but the the armies heaven of it all just felt a little I don't know it just felt a little not cringe because that's a little unfair because metal gear is kind of for cringe so I'm sort of expecting it but it it just felt a little it felt a little underthought for such a cunning strategist as he is it felt a little like first draft as far as his idea because the whole San

[01:03:17]
Harano like the San Harano incident and using that abandoned base and the soldiers that were essentially left for dead even though they're totally fine they just are guarding a thing that doesn't exist on the books anymore like that's all great that's like such a great like world map like here you go this is your whole area and it makes perfect sense and gene being behind it all is pretty great.

[01:03:39]
Tori do you are you liking the armies heaven thing or or am I alone on this one as well.

[01:03:47]
I don't know I understand it as a plot device moving forward I haven't given it much thought beyond that to be honest with you.

[01:03:59]
Yeah.

[01:04:02]
I don't know that's that is true I didn't really think about gene that much after.

[01:04:07]
I did think about a lot of the other characters.

[01:04:11]
You know.

[01:04:13]
The gene as far as like impact on you play yeah like you know upon you know that moment after you play a game it's like well let me think about what I just spent 20 hours of my life doing or whatever.

[01:04:28]
Yeah I don't know gene was interesting but I feel like with with more resources it could have been a really fucking interesting concept of like yeah a type of game that changes how it's played.

[01:04:48]
You know because his boss superpower isn't the same caliber of superpower that we see in previous games like in three.

[01:05:01]
He did some big brawny dude who just like pummeled you and liquid snake is a dude you fight it always ends up in kind of a fisty fight situation right yeah and he's not really that.

[01:05:15]
So it breaks a little bit.

[01:05:18]
I was thinking earlier it reminded me of.

[01:05:21]
Bamp.

[01:05:23]
In.

[01:05:24]
Yeah.

[01:05:25]
The battle where he down his dagger and you're caught with your own shadow.

[01:05:31]
How could have been so good.

[01:05:34]
Tori.

[01:05:35]
Oh.

[01:05:36]
Yeah wow you're actually you're very much right on them.

[01:05:39]
Damn.

[01:05:40]
Hmm.

[01:05:41]
See this is why Tori is our our gang leader.

[01:05:45]
She's the the mortar that keeps the brick house together.

[01:05:48]
Don't forget about the fundamentals of CQC.

[01:05:52]
Yeah well I mean fuck CQC if you could just teleport right.

[01:05:57]
You can zero shift.

[01:05:58]
Yeah come on.

[01:05:59]
That's a that's a zone of vendors reference I think.

[01:06:03]
Really zero shift your ability the teleport ability that the character has.

[01:06:08]
That's another thing I want to cover but we'll never be able to cover.

[01:06:12]
Probably not now.

[01:06:14]
It'd be very tough.

[01:06:16]
It's possible I guess.

[01:06:17]
Yeah.

[01:06:18]
Yeah.

[01:06:19]
How's it tough.

[01:06:20]
If you're listening Konami let us somehow access this.

[01:06:23]
Is it Konami.

[01:06:24]
It's on game it's just downloaded on.

[01:06:27]
Stop it.

[01:06:28]
Really.

[01:06:29]
Yeah.

[01:06:30]
You sure.

[01:06:31]
Download it.

[01:06:32]
Yeah.

[01:06:33]
Stop really.

[01:06:34]
I can do that tonight.

[01:06:35]
Yeah.

[01:06:36]
Yeah.

[01:06:37]
I can do a disc copy.

[01:06:38]
Oh man.

[01:06:39]
Any new Xbox it's backwards compatible too.

[01:06:41]
Like you could just pop it in there.

[01:06:43]
Okay here we go.

[01:06:44]
Anyway boys we're going to have to end the call early I guess something to do.

[01:06:49]
Suddenly.

[01:06:50]
Somebody's going to go play some zone of vendors.

[01:06:56]
We got we got eight more minutes while you download.

[01:07:01]
That's awesome.

[01:07:02]
So yeah I guess overall for a final villain he stacks up pretty well considering.

[01:07:09]
I yeah the fight would have liked a little more from it and you guys really did not.

[01:07:14]
Know your place.

[01:07:18]
I don't mean to crush your gene dreams but I like Gene I think he's a cool character.

[01:07:25]
I wish I just expected more maybe that's my problem.

[01:07:28]
I had higher expectations for the big bag.

[01:07:31]
Yeah.

[01:07:32]
I mean yeah but the games leading up to this have really asked us to expect that.

[01:07:38]
You know it's been a certain kind of formula to this point and to the games credit or detriment

[01:07:44]
it it strayed from that formula a little bit.

[01:07:47]
I tend to think more often than not those choices lended towards its credit.

[01:07:53]
This game came out in 2006 right.

[01:07:57]
And this is still pretty early on in the world trying to wrap its head around bite size portable

[01:08:05]
video games that are also 3D because before that what you had Pokemon and I don't know

[01:08:14]
whatever is on the game boy Pokemon.

[01:08:18]
And this is like trying to distill the Metal Gear formula into something that's portable

[01:08:24]
and bite size which is extremely hard to do for a game franchise that has like three hour cut scenes.

[01:08:31]
Well yeah it's also yeah Metal Gear has never been known like the whole point is to be immersed.

[01:08:38]
The whole point is to be like everything matters and you're just going to train.

[01:08:44]
Well I mean Metal Gear did hit Game Boy and it was I don't know if it was grabbing people at that point.

[01:08:53]
I have no idea but I do know that it was worthwhile for me.

[01:08:57]
Listen I haven't finished it yet.

[01:09:00]
However I am compelled to at some point if we wanted to do a ghost battle 2.0.

[01:09:07]
Well I'd be into it.

[01:09:08]
Sure.

[01:09:09]
Yeah I mean I don't know.

[01:09:11]
I think they did a good job.

[01:09:13]
I think it's tough to make a really narrative driven like a story driven game on a portable platform

[01:09:20]
with gameplay that can be picked up and put down.

[01:09:24]
And also like it would be tough to tell a story in that format too because you have to tell it in a way that's like

[01:09:32]
with the person who's playing does it pick it up like a week later and say well what the fuck was I doing again?

[01:09:37]
What the fuck's going on?

[01:09:39]
Which we did we did kind of mock back because Campbell loves to tell you.

[01:09:43]
Campbell lets you the fret know whether you're starting the mission or arriving on the scene of the mission.

[01:09:49]
Or you just need a reminder about something that pertains to the mission.

[01:09:54]
Roy Campbell has got your back.

[01:09:57]
Well we probably did this game the way it should have been played.

[01:10:00]
No definitely not.

[01:10:02]
Definitely not.

[01:10:03]
Not even a little.

[01:10:04]
I played it four fucking times essentially at least for the first half.

[01:10:07]
Yeah you got a lot of portable ops experience for a story.

[01:10:11]
As you can see someone's going to do like a case study on your experience of playing portable ops.

[01:10:16]
It would be Alex.

[01:10:20]
Alex if you want to go ahead and get started on that just hit me up.

[01:10:24]
I have decades of knowledge.

[01:10:27]
That would be amazing.

[01:10:28]
But yeah Chris I guess you're right I feel like I got wrapped up in the story bits of Gene.

[01:10:34]
I'm gonna wrapped up in the successor project.

[01:10:36]
I got wrapped up in the ultimate field commander that they want to call him that he is.

[01:10:41]
He's supposed to literally be the next the boss.

[01:10:44]
Like he was designed that way the way they tried to condition him to do it.

[01:10:49]
They give him the tools with the vocal powers like he has like these extra things that should make him special.

[01:10:56]
And it felt Gene didn't make me feel like like it was silly.

[01:11:01]
Like it felt like that's okay.

[01:11:03]
The boss didn't work out because she made the decision she made to affect the rest of the series after Metal Gear Solid 3.

[01:11:10]
And they wanted to do something about it.

[01:11:13]
Fox wanted to make sure that that's still a thing right or the CIA wanted to make sure that there was a true leader a true soldier someone as good as the boss.

[01:11:22]
And there's no way to do it unless you create them.

[01:11:25]
So I guess I got a little more tied up you know about that especially because Gene does make like a bit of a like a hubbub about when he learned what actually happened to the boss.

[01:11:38]
He's a bit of like and that cursor to like liquid and this whole cycle of violence that we're about to delve into.

[01:11:46]
Right.

[01:11:48]
Yeah.

[01:11:49]
I can totally see why Warren you would like get wrapped up in the story.

[01:11:54]
It's a good story.

[01:11:56]
Yeah.

[01:11:57]
Yeah.

[01:11:59]
Well thanks man.

[01:12:00]
Yeah.

[01:12:01]
Good.

[01:12:02]
Come here buddy.

[01:12:03]
Come here.

[01:12:04]
Let me give you a hug.

[01:12:05]
Thanks man.

[01:12:06]
Yeah.

[01:12:07]
I mean we can still be friends.

[01:12:08]
We can disagree about things and still be friends.

[01:12:10]
Everyone needs a little validation right now.

[01:12:13]
Especially in the middle of the verse.

[01:12:14]
You're doing good bud.

[01:12:16]
Thanks guys.

[01:12:17]
Thanks.

[01:12:18]
I feel so good.

[01:12:19]
I feel so good.

[01:12:21]
Yeah.

[01:12:22]
I mean I so look I guess I would say let's give some like final thoughts here on like just the overall like for a villain set and we can we can be a little we can be a little harsh and say compared to all the games so we can.

[01:12:36]
Let's take out that this was a portable game and all that stuff.

[01:12:40]
Good on the good half or the bad half of overall villains for a Metal Gear game.

[01:12:46]
Do we like this lot as sort of like here's who you fight in this game compared to other Metal Gears.

[01:12:53]
What do you think Chris.

[01:12:58]
I'm going to give it.

[01:13:02]
Let me see that again you don't have it's not a rank right but like.

[01:13:05]
Do you like like in comparison does it hold water versus like hey man the games a little like you know that kind of way you don't have to give it like a plus or something.

[01:13:13]
No it absolutely holds water.

[01:13:15]
I think it holds water better than some of the video the Metal Gear games that could Gimo was directly involved in.

[01:13:22]
So that's you know an opinion.

[01:13:27]
But.

[01:13:28]
Let's just share your opinion.

[01:13:30]
Yes just my opinion.

[01:13:32]
I don't know.

[01:13:33]
I like the the what do you call it like the cast of villains.

[01:13:39]
The.

[01:13:40]
Yeah the cast of villains here is pretty good.

[01:13:43]
There are some trophy things but I see what they were I interpret what they were trying to do is take the tropes that already exists in the series and try to play with them in interesting ways rather than.

[01:13:56]
Try to think totally outside of the box right.

[01:14:00]
They were having to think outside of the box so much with gameplay and so on.

[01:14:03]
Now this is like me projecting my opinion on it but.

[01:14:07]
I don't know I think the bad guys probably rake better.

[01:14:12]
On the upper end of Metal Gear games.

[01:14:17]
Nice.

[01:14:19]
What about you Tori.

[01:14:20]
Since tough.

[01:14:22]
I want I definitely want to agree with Chris in that.

[01:14:29]
There were some interesting plays on.

[01:14:34]
The kind of already set in stone tropes of the Metal Gear franchise.

[01:14:39]
However.

[01:14:40]
My main comparison for for baddies is snake eater because that's the most varied.

[01:14:48]
I think second to that would be.

[01:14:51]
I don't even know if I could say that I'm just used to such a variation of villain types that I feel like portable ops didn't really deliver that as much.

[01:15:04]
However, my main two takeaways from this game will be the Lisa Ursula combination and Python.

[01:15:13]
So I think I think those two are definitely standouts for me and and can compare to the rest of the series.

[01:15:22]
Other than that though they're all kind of a wash.

[01:15:26]
It's a valid opinion valid points.

[01:15:29]
Hell yeah.

[01:15:30]
I guess I'll split the I guess I'll split the vote.

[01:15:33]
And of course my answer is going to be very diplomatic anyway.

[01:15:36]
But yeah I think the story I like that they all have.

[01:15:39]
I like that they all have ties.

[01:15:41]
I think that's what makes them like obviously like the the rogues gallery and some of the other games.

[01:15:46]
They're usually tied to the villain more often than not.

[01:15:50]
They're all their liquid snakes team or the bosses old team or they were you know they're brought up by solidus or something along those lines.

[01:15:58]
These these ones had pretty legitimate ties with the characters you meet in the game snake the people in previous timelines.

[01:16:09]
And I think that's what makes them a little more special.

[01:16:12]
But if I was trying to I think the fights themselves outside of Python Python had like a very interesting environmental piece that just gave it a little bit more of like that felt like a like a Metal Gear fight where you have to thaw the weapons you have to do more.

[01:16:27]
It felt like the first time you played like Metal Gear solid.

[01:16:30]
You have to do more than just X X X X or whatever but you know duck here shoot here like it.

[01:16:35]
It was kind of missing that with some of the other fights and Jean is the one I think could have had the most like to do with that.

[01:16:43]
And so yeah I'd say probably story wise better half.

[01:16:47]
But like if I'm thinking as a whole I think I'm a little like yeah a little little right down the middle per se but but if I had to talk about them these seem I like I like going back to these as far as where they play.

[01:16:59]
Where they play in the story and how they affect the people in the game.

[01:17:03]
So I think that's it's diplomatic but I'll say I'll say better half just to give it true.

[01:17:08]
So what you're saying is gameplay sucks. Get a second joystick.

[01:17:14]
Yeah I mean welcome welcome to PlayStation portable man.

[01:17:19]
That's just that's just kind of the PSP the problem with that system.

[01:17:24]
I'm not sure I ever get used to it.

[01:17:27]
But I I adapted as best as I could.

[01:17:31]
Yeah the Vita did make up for a lot of flaws pretty quickly.

[01:17:35]
I'll never know.

[01:17:37]
Never know.

[01:17:38]
So it's in the past.

[01:17:39]
No way go back.

[01:17:40]
It's behind us now.

[01:17:41]
Okay how far they come now.

[01:17:42]
I mean now we got the damn switch.

[01:17:44]
Yeah exactly.

[01:17:47]
Which is like probably my favorite system.

[01:17:49]
Imagine how different this game might have been.

[01:17:53]
Design for like yeah I like to touch pad and stuff to all that.

[01:17:58]
I like to imagine it.

[01:18:00]
That would be a friend.

[01:18:02]
Ryan I feel port this.

[01:18:04]
Hey Ryan.

[01:18:05]
And it's not entirely in his control I know already but that would be really cool.

[01:18:11]
That would be.

[01:18:12]
That would be awesome.

[01:18:13]
Oh that'd be so cool.

[01:18:15]
Yeah guys so any any last looks we want to do on on the villains.

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I feel I feel pretty good.

[01:18:22]
Yeah I said but I would say.

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Yeah like I wanted to pick them apart a little bit but I don't know I feel like the game.

[01:18:29]
They've earned that they shouldn't be picked apart for other reasons and I like them.

[01:18:34]
So I think that's a good idea.

[01:18:36]
They've earned that they shouldn't be picked apart for other reasons and I like them.

[01:18:41]
So wow here we go guys so we're going to wrap up another episode of Metal Gear Mondays Revengeance.

[01:18:49]
We talked a little bit about the baddies I like that.

[01:18:52]
And I'm going to say thanks for listening.

[01:18:55]
Wherever you are however you're finding us please leave a review or a rating of any kind that would be like pretty fantastic.

[01:19:02]
I'd appreciate it.

[01:19:03]
The Patreon we are at Metal Gear Mondays.

[01:19:06]
We have our game monthly game club our monthly film club.

[01:19:10]
We do early access for episodes as we talked about earlier.

[01:19:14]
We have an extra podcast that comes out on the opposite weeks as well.

[01:19:19]
And there is just a lot of stuff you can find there especially our discord and you have to join for as little as a dollar to get access to the discord and everything else we just brought up.

[01:19:28]
We have some other perks as you get a little higher but.

[01:19:31]
You can find us at Metal Gear Mondays on all the social medias outside of Twitter we are Metal Gear Monday.

[01:19:36]
And you can go to Metal Gear Mondays dot com to find out about past or present hosts as well as merch and things like that.

[01:19:44]
Tori where can people find you on the internet.

[01:19:47]
You can find me on the Instagram at young neil you can find me on Facebook Tori Cortez and you can find me on Twitter at underscore young neil.

[01:19:58]
That's why NG and EIL for both.

[01:20:02]
And you can find me crying in a corner about how terrible 21 still is.

[01:20:12]
Chris we're going to find you on the internet.

[01:20:15]
Just go to Metal Gear Mondays dot com and check out all the great Metal Gear Mondays stuff from the Metal Gear Mondays fam.

[01:20:23]
We got Metal we got gears we got Metal Gear.

[01:20:28]
I like it.

[01:20:31]
I'll also throw out you have until the I believe Tori the 25th of June to drop any sort of listener responses.

[01:20:40]
Yep.

[01:20:41]
Okay.

[01:20:43]
All right.

[01:20:45]
And you can find me at Warminix on all the social medias and I'm in a band Spooky Forest.

[01:20:51]
You can find us at Spotify outside of that guys.

[01:20:54]
I think it's time to let it ripjack.

[01:20:59]
Morial.

[01:21:29]
Yeah.

[01:21:59]
Yeah.

[01:22:29]
Yeah.

[01:22:59]
Yeah.

[01:23:29]
Yeah.

[01:23:59]
Yeah.

[01:24:29]
Yeah.

[01:24:59]
Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

[01:29:59]
Yeah.

[01:30:29]
Yeah.