Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action

MGM:R #015 - Portable Ops Pt. 6 - Metal Gear... Twins?

April 19, 2021 Metal Gear Mondays
MGM:R #015 - Portable Ops Pt. 6 - Metal Gear... Twins?
Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
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Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
MGM:R #015 - Portable Ops Pt. 6 - Metal Gear... Twins?
Apr 19, 2021
Metal Gear Mondays

This week Warren, Chris, and Tori prepare to fight Metal Gear RAXA, discover a plot twist, and salute a true soldier. 

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

Show Notes Transcript

This week Warren, Chris, and Tori prepare to fight Metal Gear RAXA, discover a plot twist, and salute a true soldier. 

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

[00:00:00]
Here's to you dear listeners and welcome back to another episode of Metal Gear Monday's

[00:00:12]
Revengeance where you'll find your favorite conversations around Metal Gear and Kojima

[00:00:15]
related content delivered to you through tactical podcast action.

[00:00:20]
We are moving swiftly through our portable ops season 2 dish and with me, because I'm

[00:00:27]
certainly not doing this alone. I have no desire to do that. I have some Metal Gear

[00:00:32]
twins? Mr. Chris Hampton. Hello. How's it going? I love it. How's things? Good? Things

[00:00:43]
are wonderful. Happy to be here with you all today. I like it. I missed your shiny faces.

[00:00:51]
Yeah. We have perfect lighting in our little recording corners. And also, twin number two,

[00:01:00]
maybe number one in your hearts, Miss Tori Cortez. How we doing Tori?

[00:01:05]
Also, number one to be born. Sorry, but I think Chris, I think everybody needs to know I was

[00:01:13]
born first. Were you? Yeah. Oh, in this analogy, in this fiction, yes. Yeah, absolutely. I was

[00:01:24]
confused for a second. Yeah, you were born first, Tori. It's like, what's the Roman line? Yeah,

[00:01:31]
I came out and I was like holding your foot too. So I came second. Yes. And I'm the older brother

[00:01:39]
that didn't want to play baseball, but was forced to play sports kind of a thing. I get it. I know

[00:01:45]
this analogy pretty well. I get it. I'm trying to figure out how baseball factors into this,

[00:01:52]
but I like the imagery. I just picked generic ass sport. There's no, I didn't all hate baseball.

[00:01:58]
I didn't play it much when I was a kid, though. I was good to it in a sense. Once I got glasses,

[00:02:03]
I couldn't hit a ball to save my life. So now I am in spite of baseball. I get fat doing nothing.

[00:02:11]
This is fun positive energy. Oh, I love it. No, I'm feeling great about it. I had my little treats.

[00:02:17]
They taste delicious. I had myself a pregame beverage before this recording, so I'm happy.

[00:02:24]
What were you snacking on, Warren? I was curious about that. So I have this is important on air

[00:02:31]
material. Well, they're also in the loudest packaging possible.

[00:02:36]
Just if anybody was curious. But they're referred to as mystery monkeys, gummy candy.

[00:02:42]
Well, they sure looked mysterious. I enjoyed them. I saw a blue one of an interesting hue. You know

[00:02:49]
what? This is not interesting. We should probably move on. Welcome to Food Chat with MGM.

[00:02:56]
I can't believe I bungled it a second time, you guys.

[00:03:00]
Well, here we are. Now you got to choose it.

[00:03:04]
We're doing it. I love it. So if you have left off listening audience and those we are so thankful

[00:03:12]
for, we have left off with a pretty big cliffhanger. A snake is captured and potentially interrogated,

[00:03:21]
which we are super excited for. But before we get into the story, Tori, I believe we have a

[00:03:28]
patron that we must thank as we do in every mainline episode. Oh, you know we do. So if you're

[00:03:36]
new to the show, by the way, this is a thing we like to do every week. We like to thank one of

[00:03:42]
our patrons by name on air and talk about how great they are if we know them. If we don't,

[00:03:48]
we like to encourage them to reach out a little more and get to know us because we wouldn't still

[00:03:54]
be here doing this without you guys. So without further ado, yes, I concur. Christy, you concur.

[00:04:03]
I do concur. Excellent. So without further ado, Mr. Justin Egan is our patron of the week today,

[00:04:12]
and looks like he's been with us for a little over six months.

[00:04:15]
Yes, he's the run of our revengeance babies. Oh, Justin, if you don't like being called baby,

[00:04:21]
but we love you either way. Oh, but your BB in our hearts now. Yes, he's our little BB.

[00:04:27]
I just don't know if we've talked like so screen names and discord, obviously, they don't say your

[00:04:30]
name. So I don't know if we've we may have talked to Justin every day for the last couple months.

[00:04:37]
But Justin, if you are a patron when you hear this and you have not been active in our discord,

[00:04:41]
please feel free to do so because we're pretty active and we really enjoy

[00:04:46]
especially meeting our patrons and learning a lot about them because you probably are the man.

[00:04:50]
Or, you know, right into the show, send us an email at metalgearsmonday.gmail.

[00:05:11]
That was a swift segue for we are doing a listener episode as we do at the end of every season. So

[00:05:21]
if you guys are interested, just add a little subject line makes it tiny bit easier. But we

[00:05:26]
always end our seasons with that. Feel free to send it in. You can just contact us if you'd like

[00:05:30]
regardless. But if it Hey, this is for that episode, throw it in there and we'll be sure to read it out.

[00:05:36]
But yeah, hi, Justin, you're the man. Thanks, Justin. One last one in there. You're the best,

[00:05:41]
dude. So how are we feeling, guys, with where we left off? Are you guys a little shaken up because

[00:05:48]
Snake is captured? No, no, didn't complete his mission, technically. But he did best Snake with

[00:05:55]
Cunningham and everybody. So you think we're going to be able to save him? Like, what do you

[00:05:59]
guys think? We haven't played the game yet. So I don't I don't think Snake's going to make it,

[00:06:04]
you guys. This is it, guys, confirmed story ends. I think this is our last episode.

[00:06:12]
This is where this is the episode where Big Boss dies. Yeah. Yep. But you guys didn't see that

[00:06:17]
coming. Yep. When he died in five, but maybe even three. Yeah, no kidding. Some hot takies.

[00:06:27]
Ooh, little takies here early. All right. So I mean, I don't know if you guys are cool.

[00:06:34]
I feel quite comfortable to swim right on into the story, unless there's anything you guys want

[00:06:40]
to drop right before we get started. Now, you you breaststroke your way into this. Beautiful.

[00:06:46]
Pain us in, boring. Let's get in there real quick. Pain us a happy little tree first.

[00:06:51]
Oh, I would love to. Black canvas, maybe get some some sign and some cadmium yellow. Oh,

[00:06:56]
please. But don't forget the hold on. What is it? Thalo blue. Didn't we have hold on.

[00:07:02]
Did we not have a patron? Not a page. Well, yeah, a patron in our discord named Thalo blue.

[00:07:09]
We did at one point. I think extra patron shout out. Hold on. I have to confirm this.

[00:07:13]
Everybody changes their discord names. I know each week. So it's hard to keep up.

[00:07:18]
Yeah. And if you're a patron, we'll date this crazily because I was required to change my name

[00:07:23]
before the end of today. So if you go back and my name is still that you'll know exactly when

[00:07:28]
we recorded this episode. Oh, no, I think we lost Thalo blue, you guys. That's too bad.

[00:07:34]
Or he changed his name. Okay. Thalo blue. Reach out. Please. It's important. Come back.

[00:07:41]
Let's chat. Come back. I want to talk some colors with you.

[00:07:46]
And some Bob Ross. That's our new sideshow, right?

[00:07:49]
What Bob Ross stuff Bob Ross bum days.

[00:07:54]
Hi, hi, Coos and Bob Ross with the MGM team. I'm ready. Let's do this.

[00:08:00]
So yeah, about diving into portable ops. Yeah, so

[00:08:19]
the story of portable ops. So again, we left off with a pretty sweet boss fight with null.

[00:08:25]
And as the story goes, we were bested and Snake was taken captive. And I thought it was a pretty

[00:08:33]
cool story concept to have that happen to where normally we start as Snake in an interrogation

[00:08:40]
chair in any other game. But in this game, we're given Roy Campbell and Jonathan talking about

[00:08:46]
like, well, we got to get them back, right? They're going to try and get info out of them. We got to

[00:08:50]
do this. And pretty cool. So I give that some credit and we play as Jonathan. No matter what,

[00:08:56]
which I thought was pretty cool. I mean, I know you can choose to play as him. Obviously,

[00:08:59]
it's part of the gameplay mechanics. But as far as he is the main driving force.

[00:09:05]
So we have to find Snake's whereabouts. We go back to the silo. So we don't have to go too wild.

[00:09:10]
But I do, we talked last episode around how they're introducing mechanics you could have

[00:09:17]
already been using in the game, but you basically have to get intel from the high rank officer.

[00:09:22]
So again, kind of how they do you can't just shoot your way through, you have to actually like

[00:09:26]
get info from people and interrogate them. And soon as we start to do that, we are on a cut scene

[00:09:32]
with Gene and Cunningham. And you're discussing the interrogation of Snake. And again, Cunningham is

[00:09:40]
obsessed with the philosopher's legacy. Like it might be a third of his dialogue is lines about

[00:09:45]
or the actual words, philosophers legacy. Yeah, that's with that. Yeah, good. Like, I don't know.

[00:09:52]
What's with money? Why do people want it? Yeah, right? It's the root of all good, right? It's kind

[00:09:58]
of kind of it's kind of dumb. We don't need it anyway. But I do enjoy. Yeah, I do enjoy. I actually

[00:10:07]
thought like, so Gene, up until this moment, I've been a little underwhelmed by Gene. Outside of him

[00:10:13]
doing like that cool, like he could stop null without even trying in that last cut scene. Yeah,

[00:10:18]
previous episode, I thought that that looked very cool. It sort of so he had some sort of power or

[00:10:24]
prowess or other than just like people listen to him, quote unquote. I love his little like truth

[00:10:29]
serum talk. Because Cunningham's like, Well, I normally we do this and just me I have other

[00:10:34]
means to get it and Gene's like, you know, this don't work. Like even if they do, they're not

[00:10:38]
going to tell us what we actually want to know. So truth serums are like, that's do do, like don't

[00:10:44]
do that. I thought that was pretty cool. Like I normally that's like the answer is like, Oh,

[00:10:50]
well, just we have means and they do some crazy needle pool. You know what I mean?

[00:10:55]
But it was pretty cool. Cunningham gets you know, he steps away because he feels like a loser now.

[00:11:00]
And Gene, Gene has a chat with Snake. And Gene give snake the lowdown. And this is where we're

[00:11:05]
going to definitely open up some discussion here is we get the lowdown on his Metal Gear plot,

[00:11:11]
the setup and a long discussion about the Russian economy and the fallout of the gameplay that is

[00:11:18]
Metal Gear Solid 3 and how it affected Russia and the rise of espionage beginning. He talks about

[00:11:25]
multiple independent reentry vehicles and Russian's balance of power with the CIA and Metal Gear

[00:11:30]
and the Cold War and the loss of the legacy has left them war poor and the whole Fox mission

[00:11:34]
is to guard the Metal Gear is a sham and Fox is there to steal it and give it to the Russians.

[00:11:39]
It's this whole frickin plan. What do we think about Gene's plan? Outside of how it's delivered

[00:11:48]
to us, you're more than welcome to chime in that too. But what do we feel about like sort of what

[00:11:52]
Gene's whole thing is moving forward, at least by this point of the game.

[00:11:57]
I mean, he's he's saying specifically that he wants to create a world of his desire.

[00:12:04]
There's some really strong megalomania vibes coming from Gene. And it's, I don't know, it this is

[00:12:12]
one of the things that now that Chris has mentioned it, you know, what's up with money? What's up with

[00:12:18]
wanting to rule the world? It's I don't know. I just I agree that is a scarface.

[00:12:27]
I was going to make a banjo come like, yeah, I guess it's just you want to rule the world.

[00:12:32]
Yeah, I just suppose as a villain, I'm not really thrilled with Gene. I think I will say once we

[00:12:39]
get to his boss fight, I thought that was okay. But yeah, I don't know. He just his motivations

[00:12:46]
didn't do anything for me. It just didn't do enough to justify everything in my mind. Does that make

[00:12:55]
sense? Yeah, no, it does. Chris, what do you think with that? I mean, it kind of pivots a little bit

[00:13:03]
later in the game, like we learn a little bit more about genes like I wasn't my whole plan, you know.

[00:13:10]
There's some extra stuff we'll get into later. So everybody that's sort of screaming at us right

[00:13:14]
now for not knowing the whole story, we're trying not to necessarily spoil it. We're talking about

[00:13:19]
this in chronological events in the game. So chill out. Not only that, but just so you guys have a

[00:13:26]
little idea of what's going on. I've been revisiting my notes to chunk up at a time as we record these

[00:13:33]
and I've at this point, I have forgotten what happened in the game. So I genuinely have forgotten.

[00:13:37]
That's incredible. I don't I don't remember what's I know it's it's I remember writing the lines.

[00:13:43]
That's not my real plan question mark. Like that that was an actual line delivered. Yes, confirmed. Yep.

[00:13:52]
That's not my real plan. Yes, you're not going to be anywhere near this investigation.

[00:13:59]
I sort of feel like from a strategy perspective, genes off, like it's a really complicated scheme

[00:14:07]
that he's got going on, you know. So I thought, oh, God, sorry, God. Well, I'm just going to say,

[00:14:12]
like, you know, I have a six sigma belt certification and from a project management

[00:14:18]
perspective, you really just want the less less links in the chain as possible. There's less

[00:14:25]
opportunity for things to go wrong. And what Gene has done is create a very complicated,

[00:14:30]
linky chain that's going to probably end up choking him. Yeah, probably. I like that project

[00:14:40]
management gear Mondays corner that we just got there from the professional development

[00:14:44]
Chris Hampton. Yeah. I mean, Gene could use a little little PR little PR guy. Now, overall,

[00:14:55]
I did. I thought this was pretty clever. So Gene, I love first off, I love the name successor project.

[00:15:02]
That's a pretty dope name for that. And it gives leaders special powers with their voice,

[00:15:08]
which we had already sort of alluded to. And they definitely, they don't show it per se, but

[00:15:13]
when Gene talks, people listen straight up. I mean, a lot of times, which is pretty cool,

[00:15:18]
in a sense. And it was apparently something that the boss was also a part of, as in the boss from

[00:15:26]
middle gear, solid three. So I love bringing any time we can get the boss involved, I'm probably

[00:15:31]
going to sort of like have a soft spot and probably like, Oh, that's a cool idea. I like that. She

[00:15:35]
was part of the successor project. And again, people listen to her too. We kind of picked on her

[00:15:41]
and the Cobras in this middle gear, solid three season. It's just like these guys just

[00:15:45]
went AWOL for a few years. And then she comes back to Russia and they're all like, yeah, boss,

[00:15:49]
let's go spit hornets at this dude in the woods. You know what I mean? Like, but if she's got special

[00:15:54]
powers that they never talked about, not a bad retcon. Like it actually felt, we just thought

[00:15:59]
she was dope. And she's also just apparently enhanced to also be dope, which I thought was

[00:16:04]
cool. It doesn't like ruin anything. I thought that was a pretty clever idea. And I like the gene

[00:16:08]
sort of sees snake as his brother. Because hold on. Yeah. Are you saying that the boss was was like,

[00:16:18]
she was doping? Is that what so like she was she was engineered? He said that the boss was also

[00:16:25]
part of the successor project. So I don't know if she maybe helped design it. Was she also part of

[00:16:32]
it in that sense? Like they don't really. Okay, so they don't say for sure that she she has been

[00:16:38]
modified. We don't know that. But okay, look, I'm not saying that it's impossible. But I don't

[00:16:45]
know any women in this world that are as fucking awesome as the boss. Oh, come on. She can just

[00:16:50]
exist that way. Come on, Warren. God damn it. I'm kidding. No, I but again, I like the idea

[00:16:59]
because again, chances are my first thought was actually that she probably helped design it

[00:17:03]
because she created CQC. She helped create the Fox unit. Like she did a lot. She was basically

[00:17:08]
like behind everything in some sense of the word. Either it was to get her or help her or save her.

[00:17:14]
And I really appreciated that. You know, it's funny to me, the philosophers legacy, because we're

[00:17:21]
picking up from the end of three. And I remember like at the end of the game, they're like, oh,

[00:17:25]
it's on a microfiche, right? Yes. And it makes me think of like those old carousel,

[00:17:32]
you know, the locks lock pictures from the Grand Canyon vacation. And I just imagine like they're

[00:17:39]
like, man, I really want to see. I really want to see those photos, man. I want to see that legacy,

[00:17:45]
baby. Let me see the legacy. Like the the small little we call them cartridges you put in a little

[00:17:53]
kaleidoscope type thing. Just going to say that. Yeah, the little kaleidoscope. I don't

[00:17:57]
what are they called? Snapchats. I don't I don't know what they're called. Yeah.

[00:18:02]
It does look just like that. It almost looks like it's just like a little slice of cheese you put

[00:18:06]
in your sandwich, but it goes in a computer and gives you money. A cheese sandwich that you put

[00:18:11]
in a computer. Boring pictures. I'm not saying I'm technologically the smartest person in the

[00:18:21]
room here. I mean, all I know is I read a book that you put cheese in the sandwich and you can

[00:18:25]
get money. That's what I've read. Well, you're not wrong there. But I mean, what if the philosopher's

[00:18:30]
legacy is just like some photos from the boss and the sorrow's wedding night or something like that?

[00:18:37]
It's worth a lot of money. I was just going to say high value asset right there. I mean,

[00:18:42]
I'll slot. We definitely want that weird. Actually, if I were also that I wouldn't want that. But

[00:18:48]
that's what I'm saying. I just realized I was like, no, that's not good. That's right. That's a good

[00:18:52]
point. Hmm. But the Russians and the Chinese got to have it big time. Let's send a sultry spy

[00:19:00]
to go get some nudies. But you know what? It's like probably not far off from what the

[00:19:13]
concept originally was in Kojima's mind, that dirty little perv boy.

[00:19:17]
Well, yeah, it just I mean, they don't do a good job of show. But it has to just be very

[00:19:23]
it's half of the fortune for one. So I guess it's two of those discs or whatever they are. So

[00:19:29]
China thought they had one and now the CIA has one and we don't know where the other is. Is the

[00:19:35]
issue, I guess. I don't know. I look, Ocelot's going to get involved, y'all, spoilers. So we'll

[00:19:41]
get there. I bet you didn't know that. Yeah, but you didn't see Ocelot coming. Never, never.

[00:19:49]
So again, Gene sees Snake as his brother, which I do like because again, Snake is a true

[00:19:54]
disciple of the boss. I do like anything that ties to the boss. I love the dynamic

[00:19:58]
and the performance in the cutscenes. David Hader does a really good job. And big boss is still

[00:20:03]
compelling. And he is brutally beaten. So like just seeing him emote through artwork like that,

[00:20:10]
literally having very little left in the tank as far as because apparently Cunningham is very good

[00:20:15]
to torture, which we learned in the opening cutscene. So Snake has been in the guest house,

[00:20:23]
which of course we learned through Intel. And the location can be found at the rail bridge.

[00:20:28]
So let's head to the rail bridge. Oh, wait, hold on. Truck noise. So wait, before,

[00:20:36]
before we I didn't, for whatever reason, I didn't talk about the gameplay part or I don't know if

[00:20:41]
we skipped over that, but I just got to say this part because it leads into the single note I have

[00:20:48]
for a section down the line. You guys playing as Jonathan was, it was awesome. I love Jonathan.

[00:20:56]
He has my heart, but he doesn't, he doesn't have a trinket gun. Yeah, he doesn't have a trinket gun.

[00:21:05]
I didn't know what to do without my trinket gun. I felt lost and my strategy had it was forced to

[00:21:11]
change and I didn't care for it. Oh, I mean, I just went ham and, you know, yeah, stacked them bodies.

[00:21:20]
Yeah, but I didn't, you didn't even drag them. Let them there a rot.

[00:21:24]
Yeah, no. But it is, it's interesting because I think this is the only Metal Gear game that

[00:21:29]
lets you play as people other than the main protagonist. Sure. Well, yeah. Yeah. So I don't

[00:21:40]
know. Yeah. That's true because five has five has, but five doesn't let you do it on the main

[00:21:46]
missions. It's only when you like do the free play and you replay certain stuff. Right.

[00:21:51]
Just a first story. I don't, Peace Walker, you have a team with you, but you still play as

[00:22:01]
Snake and I think even a multiplayer, the way the game presents it is like, you're always play a Snake

[00:22:08]
and like, right, the person you're playing online with just appears as a non Snake and vice versa.

[00:22:16]
But, you know, in this game, actually, I tend to bring zero with me a lot

[00:22:25]
because zero zero is my boy. He's sharp looking. He's got that bomber jacket, you know, and it's

[00:22:31]
like back here, you know, he's he sucks though.

[00:22:37]
He's like, you think you think Jonathan's bad without that drink gun zero ain't got nothing.

[00:22:43]
Yeah, he's got a sweet ass coat. Okay. So I didn't this is a thing I didn't do. I'm

[00:22:50]
glad we're talking about this. I didn't recruit any of any of our fun main guys.

[00:22:57]
And how do you do that? So good question. I when we did the good guys episode,

[00:23:05]
I don't remember if I included zero, but I know I talked about paramedic. Yeah. I don't know. I

[00:23:10]
talked about recalls coming in during gameplay. What we'll do is because I don't have it in front

[00:23:17]
of me. I don't have my needs. But I will be sure to potentially include it in a future ep. Maybe

[00:23:25]
when we do like our little ending. Yeah, that kind of stuff because I don't know. Some of them are

[00:23:29]
very convoluted. Some are like codec. Or it is complicated to unlock. You have to complete the

[00:23:35]
game with you have to complete the game on a PlayStation portable that has the middle gear

[00:23:42]
solid digital graphic novel on the memory stick as well. Okay. Yeah. So you have to have like two

[00:23:49]
separate apps, I guess, portable ops plus this graphic novel thing. And when you complete the

[00:23:55]
game, the game will recognize, Oh, you did this here's zero and you can use them now. Okay. All

[00:24:01]
right. Good thing because I didn't have zero. I used the, I guess like the comms captain. I don't

[00:24:06]
know his exact name because there's a couple of them that are like that, but they're the ones that

[00:24:08]
have like the dope suit with the red beret hat on. Yeah. Okay. So did you guys get any of the other

[00:24:14]
main players? Any of our other I got I got paramedic. Okay. Because that was like a simple, I believe

[00:24:21]
it's I if I remember correctly, it's like a codec call that you call and there's like a code you

[00:24:26]
have to know. I just full disclosure. I know everybody heard I was using a guide because I

[00:24:31]
wanted to get the story down pat for talking on this. Well, then can I can I make a request of

[00:24:38]
our listeners then maybe maybe for the listener episode, you all could write in and tell us if

[00:24:46]
and how you recruited any extra members. Yeah. I like that. There you go. You got homework listeners.

[00:24:56]
Y'all better do it. No, I'm just kidding. That's a fun energy to come at our listeners with.

[00:25:02]
Yeah, no kidding. Do it or you fail.

[00:25:07]
All right. So we make our way to the rail bridge, right? Now I made it a point to say this right

[00:25:13]
before we go. It's a little convoluted when we talk about Jean's plan. However, I thought it was

[00:25:20]
pretty sound as far as basically how he like kind of screwed over the CIA. I actually was like,

[00:25:25]
how does he know? How does he know this and why like, why is he so he's less interested in the

[00:25:32]
legacy and more interested in why he needs it, which I thought was compelling, not just I need

[00:25:38]
the money. He more like the money is to move forward with what I want to do in his heart is

[00:25:43]
the right thing to do, which we'll learn later in the game. But overall, I thought the actual

[00:25:48]
like screwing over the CIA, the abandoned base, the use the successor project, I guess, genome,

[00:25:55]
whatever we want to call it, the, the, the, I guess, what do they call them? Parasites. I guess

[00:26:01]
it's parasite technology. It since it's this early in the timeline. And I'm assuming it's

[00:26:08]
probably a, you know, a chunk of what turns into the Metal Gear Solid 5. Parasitic, you know,

[00:26:16]
parasitic issue, I would assume this is probably because it's a delivery system through talking.

[00:26:22]
So that's interesting. But yeah, so otherwise, what I thought was interesting is they've mentioned

[00:26:27]
like an informant a couple times, which we sort of dropped the ball on that, but it's me you've

[00:26:33]
played any yet. It's the Chris IA is who the informant is. It's anytime it's the CIA and

[00:26:41]
it's an informant, we always know who it is. It's, it's Ocelot. It's Chris. Yeah, it's Chris, right.

[00:26:47]
And we'll get into it, but I, it's a pretty cool concept of him being able to pull that off. So I

[00:26:54]
really enjoyed that. So again, as we get ready to head to the rail bridge out of nowhere, Null comes

[00:27:00]
in and wreck shop because he has not completed his mission to kill Snake. Cool, I get it. Makes

[00:27:08]
perfect sense. He's pretty convincing that you told me to kill him and you didn't let me. So

[00:27:14]
we need to do something about this. Ursula Jean does their best to stop him. And this is where

[00:27:17]
Jean stops Null like nothing and realizes that Snake and Null have a bond. That's clearly something

[00:27:25]
they have between them. We as players know, because they just had that conversation during

[00:27:30]
the boss fight that he was the kid from Mozambique and he knows who he is. We know that it's Gray

[00:27:34]
Fox or Frank Yeager. And I thought that was great. So we find ourselves back at the bridge

[00:27:41]
with our team hunting for Snake, obviously looking for Intel. And again, I don't know if

[00:27:47]
there's anything new as far as gameplay in this section, because this like part of this was because

[00:27:51]
we're backtracking to places we've previously been. So they're sort of using our knowledge

[00:27:56]
of previous zones to probably have maybe, because Jonathan Jonathan's a great character. But

[00:28:02]
if you compare Jonathan's stats to snakes, it's like half the life, two thirds of the stamina,

[00:28:07]
he doesn't have the ability to be silent. So it's more on your gameplay, not leveling up,

[00:28:13]
quote unquote. Because Jonathan doesn't have that. From a gameplay perspective too, it's

[00:28:19]
interesting because we've always played as the legendary boss. And as someone who just

[00:28:29]
played the game from a player perspective, it's like, Oh, this guy's legendary. But like, you

[00:28:34]
know, I mess up all the time. My snake is at that legendary or if he is, you know,

[00:28:44]
here we go. There are different standards in the world. But yeah. So this like gives you that

[00:28:51]
kind of comparison that a b of like, Oh, well, like you thought you thought it was tough with Snake,

[00:28:56]
like here you are with Jonathan, who is like poor, like your gameplay experience is limited because

[00:29:04]
of the character and the way it interacts with the game, the game world differently.

[00:29:11]
So that was interesting to me how they used gameplay and story to kind of create that experience. And

[00:29:18]
there's a lot of these little moments in the game. And I think that's what makes it a little special,

[00:29:23]
little interesting. You know, I agree. I think that was, I think that was my argument of like,

[00:29:28]
guys, we got to do poor blobs, right? And we're like, yeah, we're definitely doing poor blobs.

[00:29:33]
Because it gets forgotten. This could this is stuff that doesn't usually happen in metal gear

[00:29:37]
games for the most part, at least this exact concept. Tour, do you agree with like the, I mean,

[00:29:44]
again, your your love for Jonathan has been well documented. And I will never deep like discount

[00:29:50]
your love for him. But was it a little bit harder to play as Jonathan without your trank gun?

[00:29:56]
Yes, it was. I had a love hate relationship with Jonathan at that point. Well, but it's not,

[00:30:02]
it wasn't Jonathan's fault. I can't even be mad at him. What a great relationship you have with

[00:30:09]
Jonathan. Yeah, it was tougher. I, as I said before, I had to change my strategy. I got caught a lot

[00:30:17]
more. I because I just didn't like, I don't know, if I can, I typically try and play as pacifist as

[00:30:24]
possible. But no, I just had to straight start merkin some people after after a little while,

[00:30:30]
it just had to happen. I got they took your boss. Yeah, bodies. We want some tags. We got to do this.

[00:30:38]
I get it's true. I feel you toe tags. So, Alisa.

[00:31:01]
Of all people, she pulls some shade. So we're back to snake. So Alisa comes in and again,

[00:31:06]
we've been real sort of friendly with Alisa and we get why they have a moment earlier in the game.

[00:31:12]
Yeah, real friendly. And I like her little like, you know, why don't you go get this? I gotta talk

[00:31:18]
to the patient or whatever, you know, what he's literally like dying in a chair and the guy's

[00:31:22]
like, okay. But I did like their dialogue. I like Alisa a lot. I like the character and I like their

[00:31:31]
dynamic because it isn't gross. Even though we might, I think it's this episode we're going to get to

[00:31:35]
where it gets a tiny bit gross. Roy, dog. Thank you so much for saying that. I have that in mind.

[00:31:42]
I think it's this episode. If I remember correctly, well, if not, we're going to get there. Roy has

[00:31:46]
a problem in his relationship with women. Yeah. And it starts early. Yeah, we learn it's like,

[00:31:53]
it's a character flaw from his younger years. It's not a past trauma. He's been doing it a

[00:31:59]
long time. You weirdo. So yeah, so she's talking about how he's brutally beaten and they kind of

[00:32:05]
make reference, I guess, to basically like snakes junk is just, you know,

[00:32:10]
paced at this point because Cunningham is a psycho. His snake is also not legendary.

[00:32:19]
Didn't he have like radiated balls already? Yes, which will they talk about it.

[00:32:26]
Yeah. And I can't wait to get to that conversation because I although that's a funny

[00:32:31]
like sort of line, it's a little cheesy, but the content is what's really good.

[00:32:34]
Yes. So Alisa reveals that she has TKE, she has telekinesis and communicates a snake to her mind,

[00:32:42]
which is like, okay, we kind of, I kind of thought that because Ursula, their twins,

[00:32:47]
she's got powers. They sort of talked about how they were, you know, close and now they

[00:32:51]
don't talk to each other. So I would assume that was pretty normal. And she catches snake up on her

[00:32:56]
mission and her premonitions of snake destroying a metal gear. Pretty cool. Okay. And then we

[00:33:04]
find the location of the guest house, obviously, right? You don't think snake killing a metal gear

[00:33:10]
is cool, man? I mean, that's probably the most predictable thing that you could say about snake

[00:33:15]
is him killing a metal gear. Yeah, that's true. You know, that's like, that's like a someone saying,

[00:33:21]
oh, I'm a psychic. And they come in and I'm like, Oh, really? Like, tell me more. And they're like,

[00:33:26]
yeah, you have curly hair. When you're older, your hair will be curly.

[00:33:35]
It's a good point. I guess I never, I guess I never thought of that. Curly hair.

[00:33:44]
Sorry for anybody that can't see that. But when Tori does snake, her whole like,

[00:33:48]
gesture, her whole face and her shoulders, it's amazing. David, you have to get into character.

[00:33:54]
It's an entire persona that can only be seen. It can only be described as like,

[00:34:01]
probably like a 75 year old heavy smoker. That's it. Just like, think of an old lady with cats

[00:34:08]
with a permanent slump and a constant cigarette in her hand. Get me a goddamn cigarette.

[00:34:15]
I love it. So much fun to derail the conversation with that.

[00:34:22]
So we make our way to the guest house. Now, I don't believe we've talked about this place before,

[00:34:26]
if I'm not mistaken. But the guest house, I thought this was a pretty cool map.

[00:34:34]
Very big for what is called the guest house. I would not have expected the map to be as large

[00:34:38]
as it was. And I thought there was a lot of cool like cubbies and like places to find stuff,

[00:34:45]
a lot of cool places to hide and find, climb and crawl. Again, it seems a little few and far

[00:34:51]
between, but I do make it a point that there's of like, I guess the 12 or 20 maps, like there are

[00:34:56]
eight that are like, really good, like progression, as far as what the player needs to do for a map.

[00:35:04]
And I like that a lot. We agree on the on the guest house. Is there any fun stories before

[00:35:09]
we actually get to rescuing snake? Not that I can recall. I'm struggling to remember the guest

[00:35:17]
house a little bit, though. So is this the one where a suit is up, like on the higher level?

[00:35:27]
Yes, actually, yes. Okay. So this one, yeah, the only thing I have to say about this one is that

[00:35:33]
again, I wasn't doing so hot without without my usual weapon. And I may have gotten caught like

[00:35:43]
three or four times and then accidentally stumbled into the right place with an alert still going on.

[00:35:49]
So that was pretty cool. But yeah, other than that, it went it went okay.

[00:35:53]
Well, that's good. Alright, well, then here we go. We enter in and we are rescuing snake,

[00:36:03]
quote unquote, we have a moment. And Cunningham intervenes. And again, one third of his dialogue

[00:36:10]
is dead set that snake stole half of the legacy. And I did kind of like, they kind of pulled out

[00:36:18]
like, why the hell do you care so much? Like, why is this so important to you do like maybe he's

[00:36:21]
got alternative motives. Talk to the Pentagon, like just like weird shit, like just like, like

[00:36:28]
Cunningham is a new character for us. But we they clearly made efforts to like that he's been embedded

[00:36:34]
in other things that we've heard in previous chronological stories from the game. Like there's

[00:36:40]
obviously something going on that this guy's been in the background for a while. In at least in my

[00:36:46]
head can and the way they did it. Alisa rolls in to save the day and brings them back to the squad.

[00:36:54]
So it's like a pretty cool little not really a firefight, but it's just more of like,

[00:36:58]
we got to get the hell out of here, right? And again, I did have to call out that I put a little

[00:37:03]
gross moment of Alisa being too young. And Roy saying but she'll be I think he says she'll be

[00:37:10]
a real looker. Is that what he says? But I put that she'll be hot in five years. Or you know,

[00:37:15]
he says in five years, she'll be a real knockout. I think he says, she's like, okay, dude. And heavy

[00:37:21]
I rule. He also implied that like Snake was like, Hey, this telekinetic chick, like she's cool and

[00:37:28]
on. She's been helping me out. But really, it's because I'm trying to get it in. Like, no, like

[00:37:32]
that's not even close to what it was. But Roy assumed that well, this one she's too young, bro.

[00:37:36]
Like, don't do that. And it's like, that's not why we're doing this. This is coming after the

[00:37:41]
conversation where Roy just like relentlessly dogs on like without meaning to relentlessly dogs on

[00:37:47]
snakes and ability to like land a woman apparently like, yeah, you're right. Talking about how

[00:37:57]
what was it? It just the kids conversation kept accidentally stumbling into Oh, well,

[00:38:02]
at least your situation isn't this bad. And it's like, exactly snake situation.

[00:38:08]
Yeah, I care. I would like to find that and cue it here. Oh, wait, it's not audio. Damn it.

[00:38:17]
Queue here where where Tori reads it. Yeah. Oh, no, actually. Yeah. Okay, Tori, cue it here.

[00:38:23]
Queue it here. You feeling down Snake? No. Ah, I just remembered, there's another principal

[00:38:32]
in psychology called the Romeo and Juliet effect. It says that the tougher the conditions faced by

[00:38:37]
two lovers, the stronger their bonds of affection become. So don't give up yet, Snake. As long as

[00:38:43]
she's not like some agent from an enemy country who's on the run because she screwed up her last

[00:38:48]
mission. I'm sure you two will find each other somehow. Snake, do me a favor. Just leave me alone for a while.

[00:39:03]
So yeah, so we after they escape, we learn of Alisa's true backstory with Jean. Again,

[00:39:10]
I legitimately feel fine. This compelling the the telekinesis the nuclear after math. And again,

[00:39:16]
I know they said it. I know I'm going to butcher it. Please. You can shout at me in the comments if

[00:39:20]
you'd like. I'm going to say the kishtim mountains, or the excuse me kishtim in the Ural Mountains,

[00:39:25]
I believe this is how it's pronounced. Ursula and Alisa lost their parents in the explosion that

[00:39:30]
the famous explosion that happened at kishtim. She wants Snake to destroy the middle gear to

[00:39:35]
stop nuclear war or at least potential nuclear war and says that Snake will be a good father one day.

[00:39:41]
And this is where Chris just bought up irradiated balls. And he kind of just makes like a I don't

[00:39:48]
think it'll be a father one day or something like that. It's like, we all know you got irradiated

[00:39:52]
balls, you weirdo. Yeah, I think that just means that, you know, he has a pain in the minute issues.

[00:40:00]
Is that what it is? Yes, Nick, you're going to be a great father someday. Oh, yeah.

[00:40:09]
It's like a backhanded dig. She's actually just trying to knock him like she's not even trying to

[00:40:14]
be nice to him. Someone considered an international terrorist is going to be an excellent father.

[00:40:19]
She's negging. She's negging Snake. She's like using negative reinforcement for him to like

[00:40:24]
destroy a metal gear. I like the psychology end of it. So she said that Snake was her Snake was

[00:40:31]
the first time that her and her sisters had visions that did not match, which seems a little

[00:40:38]
cliche, even though I don't know if I've heard of this per se of like sort of like dueling

[00:40:44]
telekinetics or psychics that are like dead set on something different happening with the same

[00:40:49]
subject. So I guess it felt like it was obvious. But then again, when I started like thinking about

[00:40:55]
it, I'm like, I can't think of anything that really did this before. As far as storytelling.

[00:41:00]
And I like that. Although that was pretty good. And she warned Snake, the one thing we now know

[00:41:04]
about Jean outside of the successor project is crazy reflexes, which is why he can also command a

[00:41:13]
perfect soldier, no, potentially others in the future. And again, anytime they say that, knowing

[00:41:19]
that the successor project included the boss, I'm like, maybe that's why the boss was a badass.

[00:41:23]
Like in general, like maybe she might have been the best anyway, but she wanted to definitely be

[00:41:26]
the best. So she could still be in charge of all the genes that were coming in the successor project

[00:41:33]
in my head. I like that. So I can get on board with her as far as as far as the Alisa Ursula

[00:41:40]
stuff. I don't know what it is, but I I really liked the performance. I still I believe it's

[00:41:45]
Tara Strong if I'm wrong, I'll probably correct myself before the end of this episode. But the

[00:41:50]
Alisa Ursula story, I legitimately appreciate the story they're telling. I like the dynamic of

[00:41:58]
they're both sort of in debt to Jean, in a sense, and the two of them are on different paths, but

[00:42:05]
sort of understand that they almost have respect for Jean, but they stand differently on what he

[00:42:10]
wants to do moving forward. I appreciate that. And as far as a story like a narrative perspective,

[00:42:15]
for this to happen so quickly in the game, like this isn't a revelation. This is just progression

[00:42:20]
of the story, which I really I liked, if I'm being honest, I really was taken by the sisters.

[00:42:26]
I thought that was a really cool idea. How do you guys feel about Alisa and Ursula?

[00:42:31]
So, okay, I'm going to I'm going to go out on a limb here. If we are permitted to speak in a meta

[00:42:42]
sense, briefly. Oh, it's a Kojima game. Absolutely. Yeah. So did Kojima just steal this whole plot

[00:42:49]
beat and reuse it in Peace Walker with pause? Yeah, probably. Okay, cool. Just just wanted to

[00:42:56]
like check that real quick. We can't talk about this yet because we're not to that episode yet.

[00:43:03]
But if you're talking about her little twist, her little plot twist,

[00:43:10]
but just I think the whole kind of what the character function as functions as is in the story.

[00:43:17]
Got you. That too. That too. But everything about this character just seems to be recycled into

[00:43:24]
pause later. Yeah, I think that's a part of again, we'll get to it. But I love pause too.

[00:43:33]
Yeah, I really appreciate what she brings to Peace Walker when we get to it. And I again,

[00:43:38]
Tara Strong's performance is so good. Put some clothes on though. Okay, that's inappropriate.

[00:43:43]
She's a child. She's a child. There's a time where it's a moment of power and she's in her

[00:43:48]
underwear for no reason. And I can't say when that is because I don't want to ruin part of

[00:43:52]
Peace Walker. But like, yeah, it's a little, little gross, I guess when you think about it, like

[00:43:59]
yeah. I got to say, we didn't get that with these two. Like we don't really get gross. We get

[00:44:06]
Roy being gross, but she didn't ever do anything. She didn't walk into the room like in her underwear

[00:44:10]
and was like, Oh, you caught me getting dressed. I'm 16. You know what I mean? Like it was just more

[00:44:15]
like she had she she asked him a question and he was like, Whoa, like I'm like you're a kid.

[00:44:21]
She was like, Well, that's not what I was asking. But I appreciate that. Like, thank you for not

[00:44:25]
being a fucking kid. So now we're now we're close. Like I like well, and how much of that is like

[00:44:30]
attributed to the different writers on this project versus a more main the more mainline project,

[00:44:35]
you know, because this was realistically, this was a side game, right, produced by a different team.

[00:44:42]
Yeah. You know, you guys are having conversations of Ryan about that. And I would be interested to

[00:44:46]
hear on his perspective about the differences between pause and Elise's storyline and kind of

[00:44:54]
how they mirror each other and how, you know, the Metal Gear series as a whole just tends to

[00:45:00]
circle the drain a bit. It reuses a lot of the same plot beats and that sort of theme

[00:45:05]
overall. But in this case, it feels weak. And I don't know. I think Elise is a stronger character,

[00:45:14]
in my opinion, more well written. And it's it's a lot less tropey in the way that

[00:45:21]
the psychology of the character is handled. Agreed. Sure. Oh, yeah. No, it's a great idea. I totally

[00:45:28]
agree. So yeah, so we have Intel that we have to head to the plant. And I sort of made a joke,

[00:45:36]
are we familiar with every map yet, because we are starting to, you know, recycle totally

[00:45:41]
fine boxes. Makes sense. Yep. Yep. But again, what I like about this particular map, again,

[00:45:47]
the plant's not a boring map per se. I like checking all the corners. I like finding stuff.

[00:45:52]
I do like that. Sometimes if you were supposed to find something earlier in the game, it may just

[00:45:57]
pop up in the middle of nowhere because you might need this this item for the next mission.

[00:46:02]
Oh, hey, by the way, dimwit, you missed this way back there.

[00:46:06]
Oh, it's like clever enough where I'm like, shit, was I supposed to get that? Where would I get that?

[00:46:10]
And I'm like, I should have done more Intel missions. So and then we find Intel, get to the

[00:46:16]
hangar, prepare to drop the bombs, because we are been we've been making this whole plan to get

[00:46:22]
the metal gear, because ghost from the previous episode, which we found out,

[00:46:26]
do we find out who goes with Seattle? So we're about to. Okay. So ghost told us what to do moving

[00:46:32]
forward. Like he knows a lot about Metal Gear Solid 3. He knows a lot about the construction

[00:46:37]
and design of the new Metal Gear. And he's telling us how we can sabotage it and win.

[00:46:43]
So we're preparing to drop the bombs. We're in the hangar. We're like ready to go.

[00:46:46]
And Jean finds us and the Metal Gear is already being being piloted and it flies.

[00:46:56]
Did you did that surprise you guys at all? Did you guys remember a flying Metal Gear

[00:47:00]
being in any of these games?

[00:47:04]
Not no, not to this not to this point.

[00:47:09]
I kind of forgot that.

[00:47:12]
Yeah, it's like a hovercraft kind of thing, right?

[00:47:14]
Yeah. And we'll get to the we'll get to the fight in a minute.

[00:47:21]
But what's interesting is that Skoronsky, our Russian boy that we love, I thought he was rotten

[00:47:28]
in a jail cell and apparently we were wrong. And he fires on the men and he's just going to town

[00:47:34]
with the the minigun there. And he somehow misses Jean, which I'm assuming the amazing reflexes.

[00:47:40]
And I just for my sake, as far as a beer would go, I would definitely tip a vodka to that Russian

[00:47:48]
son of a bitch moving forward. I after this scene, I really like like Skoronsky like he's just

[00:47:54]
not like he's just like a perfect non moment character that just like makes in a movie he would

[00:48:00]
like chew the shit out of scenery and be like, man, I'm going to remember that guy.

[00:48:04]
Even if I don't remember this movie kind of a thing. He's just really fun.

[00:48:08]
And this is where Jean reveals his secret weapon, his trump card.

[00:48:14]
That you let's please let's rephrase that. It's his words.

[00:48:19]
It can't be in the lexicon anymore. Sorry.

[00:48:23]
Strike it for the English language. Can we call it his Donald card? Would that be better?

[00:48:28]
The Don card, the DC. The Don card. Yeah.

[00:48:31]
Dicard. His DC. Dicard. I like that. Yes.

[00:48:36]
That Alisa is Ursula. And he basically says like something like Ursula awaken.

[00:48:42]
And she can control the unfinished metal gear, which is pretty clever. That means nobody else

[00:48:48]
can use it against them because he has some telepaths. Not bad. So now this is where

[00:48:54]
let's talk about this battle. I'll start it off with I love the concept. It felt it felt very

[00:49:01]
metal gear solid one that it is this pretty cool machine. Again, it can fly. It's being powered

[00:49:06]
by a telepath, but it's in like this like small containment area. So it can't do what it's really

[00:49:13]
good at because it'll just smack into the walls and and you know, it can't really fly out of there

[00:49:18]
like the way everything's working. So I thought like making it very content, not contagious.

[00:49:24]
What's the word I'm looking for? Very constricted, very small, very claustrophobic, made it made

[00:49:29]
me believe more that Snake had a chance to win this fight. It was just sort of flying around.

[00:49:33]
I think Snake would just have to like rock it. It could be another hind to D fight or something.

[00:49:37]
So as far as like the battle arena itself and sort of your strategy,

[00:49:44]
I basically said like, all right, are you using TNT or are you using the the rocket propel grenade?

[00:49:50]
So how do we feel about the design? And then what was your weapon of choice for this fight?

[00:49:54]
I really enjoyed this. I thought for whatever reason, it was just it was a rhythm I could

[00:50:01]
easily get into once I got there. And it became quite an enjoyable fight. I did go with the

[00:50:08]
portable rocket launcher or whatever, whatever it's called. The RPG. Yeah, wait, what does that stand for?

[00:50:17]
Rocket propelled grenade. That's what you said. Okay. So yeah, I used the RPG and

[00:50:25]
I just kind of drink break. I just kind of ran around and like,

[00:50:31]
I think I need a refresher on how this goes, actually, because I know there's some sort of

[00:50:35]
rhythm and there's a lot of like storage containers in this room. And yeah, yes, the kind of rhythm

[00:50:41]
that I fell into is like you you have the RPG and you can also use TNT to attack it.

[00:50:48]
But I don't think I did any of that. Yeah, you just kind of like drop the TNT and if you can get it to

[00:50:55]
like go over it and you can just I think from wherever you are, you can like blow it up and

[00:51:00]
it's pretty helpful. I tried that in vain for like the like the first time I attempted this

[00:51:07]
and died. I was like, okay, I'm not going to do that ever again. So moving on. Yeah.

[00:51:14]
Yeah, you hide in these containers and like it shoots rockets at them and blows them up. So

[00:51:20]
it's a lot of like cover shooting with the rocket launcher. It's sort of this fight. I don't know

[00:51:27]
about you guys, but this room reminds me of those VR rooms and Revengeance.

[00:51:32]
Well, not Revengeance, but I can I can see how even the VR training kind of seems similar to this.

[00:51:40]
And I know what you mean by the design of it. It's like it feels like an unpopulated room.

[00:51:45]
Like fit for one task. And in this particular task, it's defeat Metal Gear Raja as what it's

[00:51:52]
going to be called. I recall a Raxa for so long. And it's Raja, which I did. It took me like 10

[00:51:59]
times to just say it in a row to be like, okay, we're going to call it Metal Gear Raja now because

[00:52:04]
it was Raxa in my head cannon for the longest time.

[00:52:08]
Yeah. I mean, so this is probably the only Metal Gear fight that takes place in the holodeck. But

[00:52:16]
I don't know. I enjoyed the fight. I thought it was fun. It's interesting how

[00:52:25]
you like seeing this design of Metal Gear fit into like how it moves forward,

[00:52:31]
because it's a hovercraft, right? Yep. And at the end of three, Sokolov and Grannon,

[00:52:40]
like we we had that conversation with Grannon, he's like, oh, it's got legs.

[00:52:46]
Yeah, it went from rolling to walking. That was a spot on spot on

[00:52:54]
Grannon came in to the podcast for that quick second. Can you bring Chris back now?

[00:52:58]
Grannon, thank you. Chris is back now. Yes. And that's kind of been like the big thing with all

[00:53:04]
the Metal Gears is that they're bipedal tanks that go boom. And this honestly seems like a

[00:53:13]
superior design that would hover instead of walk. That would make it more mobile. I agree too.

[00:53:20]
Yeah, riddle me that. Why are they going back to an inferior design after they've made

[00:53:26]
this iteration of it? Yeah, can we talk about that? Because he he he says here in a moment,

[00:53:31]
can we get there? Warren, am I going to be skipping over anything? Well, I mean, we can we can

[00:53:36]
float back because it's all part of the this will all be part of this final the conversation of the

[00:53:41]
story bits and everything going on with this. My only pushback because I totally agree with you

[00:53:45]
guys, like I think this is the superior model. But at least as far as what we know, and I know that

[00:53:52]
there's maybe more of these potentially or whatever, you know, like stuff I don't want to

[00:53:58]
necessarily personally get into. But we, you know, they need to they need to telekinetic to

[00:54:03]
perfectly use this thing. True. So maybe telepats are cool. But maybe psychomantis was like, Hey,

[00:54:10]
man, I really don't want to sit in a little gear and like control it. But can you just give it

[00:54:14]
some legs and maybe a laser or something? Can you like a radar dish? Not maybe. Yeah.

[00:54:20]
Like so. Railgun. Yeah, exactly. So like where I totally agree with you guys, I just feel like

[00:54:26]
since he had Ursula, I guess, can let's agree on this. Do we just call her a Lisa? Or when she's

[00:54:33]
evil, we call her Ursula. This is specifically where I was wondering, is she Ursula being brainwashed

[00:54:42]
to be a Lisa? Or is it the other way around? So in my head counting, because I don't think they

[00:54:48]
actually don't say, I don't think they explain it. My understanding, I always took it as a Lisa was

[00:54:54]
in a war torn country that suffered, you know, a famous explosion, you know, bombing. And her

[00:55:03]
telekinetic powers, you know, I guess even like in Star Wars Jedi, there's always a dark side. Like

[00:55:09]
once you're drunk with power, you can use it for bad or use it for good. And maybe she's always had

[00:55:16]
this sort of conflict between her and the bad. I just always took it as that she was a Lisa.

[00:55:21]
And the bad side was sort of groomed to be her equal. So you could just make Ursula arise, not

[00:55:31]
just they don't battle for it. Like, you have to awaken Ursula. She's always a Lisa before like,

[00:55:37]
I don't see him say like, and now you're a Lisa, you know, so I always take it as she's a Lisa default.

[00:55:43]
That's a good point. You know what I mean? And it's all conjecture, but

[00:55:48]
the reason I ask is because part of me was wondering back when we were talking about

[00:55:55]
Alisa's conversation with Snake in the cell. Part of me wondered if that could have been

[00:56:02]
part of the plan, you know what I mean? But I don't think there's sufficient evidence for that

[00:56:06]
now that we actually talk it out. It was just kind of a thought.

[00:56:10]
My only, again, my pushback on that is because Alisa was like, if you are concerned, murder me.

[00:56:14]
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's easier if I'm dead. That was my next thought.

[00:56:18]
She is full agency because Ursula doesn't really ever talk about Alisa.

[00:56:22]
Alisa only talks about Ursula, at least in our perspective. We never hear Alisa talk about,

[00:56:29]
I mean, we never hear Ursula talk about her sister, Alisa.

[00:56:31]
Did Ursula talk at all?

[00:56:33]
She has like one or two lines in the helicopter. And she talks about Null once or twice or the

[00:56:40]
perfect soldier. And she doesn't have like a different voice, but it has like a different

[00:56:43]
affect to it. So hard to tell. But I think I thought that was a narrative choice,

[00:56:50]
like why we don't hear her say much. I would argue she is talkative. We just never heard it.

[00:56:56]
Okay. Yeah, I super can't remember some details from this at this juncture.

[00:57:02]
So yeah, so yeah, so this fight was fine with me. You go for the legs, then they have like the

[00:57:08]
flaps on the Metal Gear Raja opens and closes. You have to time your shots.

[00:57:12]
Poor design, honestly.

[00:57:14]
Poor design. So the boss fight felt a little easier than I thought it should be,

[00:57:18]
but I playing the game, I kind of thought like, well, maybe there's an emotional baggage because

[00:57:22]
you're basically killing Alisa if you win the fight. So maybe that was part of it.

[00:57:27]
You know, like it didn't, it felt like a choice. Well, but were you connected enough to Alisa at

[00:57:33]
this point to really care that much? I thought Snake was because I thought she was gonna help us

[00:57:38]
because she got him out of the cell. That's true. She was trying. We're gonna have Alisa,

[00:57:42]
like she's gonna kick some ass before this game's over. But this happened so quickly after that.

[00:57:47]
I don't know if I had the time to be really invested enough, you know? Sure. Yeah. No,

[00:57:53]
I totally agree that the pacing, while for the huge swaths of this, the pacing works really well

[00:58:01]
moving forward. This is one of those where it's just like, and we learn a thing and a thing happened

[00:58:05]
and they're gone and let's move on and something else happens. Like it's very, very, very, very fast.

[00:58:11]
So yeah, so we blow up the Metal Gear Raja and we kill Alisa. You know it? But then there's a pretty

[00:58:20]
dope cut scene of like all the soldiers are like, oh my God, that's the legendary big boss. Any

[00:58:25]
kill, the Metal Gear. We're doomed. Like we lost. Like we're not winning this anymore.

[00:58:33]
Which is pretty cool. That makes kind of sense. I totally get it because we've learned very quickly

[00:58:37]
you can sway them just with having a conversation, let alone seeing that you're also winning like the

[00:58:42]
war, I guess, of the game. So we're, I guess, we're like talking to Gene, but Gene's up on like that

[00:58:50]
big scaffolding, that cliff side, and we're sort of low down. And of course, I put Gene brings up

[00:58:55]
Ocelot and I was like, nice name drop asshole. This is where we finally know that it's Ocelot. We

[00:59:02]
sort of already knew that, but he actually like, yeah, he basically just name drops them super

[00:59:08]
quick. We get a call from Ghost and Ghost reveals that not only is Raja a test model,

[00:59:16]
but we also learn that Ghost is Sokolov, who is quote unquote back from the dead.

[00:59:25]
And he doesn't want to see a Metal Gear used on his motherland, Mother Russia. And I just put big

[00:59:32]
history lesson here because they just start, they start talking a lot of stuff. And it's,

[00:59:38]
it's, this is where I'm like, okay, like, I totally get it. This is a Metal Gear game. But I was

[00:59:42]
like, this is, this is a lot. Like we're learning about all the Russia stuff. And then I guess we

[00:59:48]
learned that Sokolov Ghost was he was in a refugee camp because he survived the gunshot and the

[00:59:56]
brutal beating from, oh my God, the Vulcan, there it is. I knew it was a V. And I guess he just

[01:00:03]
sort of was there. Gene saves him. Like a lot of Gene saving people, they trust him, which I guess

[01:00:09]
we learned for nefarious reasons. And then I did make a special note because I laughed. So Gene's

[01:00:15]
talking and he says, today's ally, maybe tomorrow's bitter enemy. And I was like, I see what you did

[01:00:24]
there. Pretty, pretty clever. It was a little twist on it, but it's like his version of what the

[01:00:30]
boss says and then the same project. So I get it. So Gene uses his vocal power, his successor project

[01:00:37]
concerns. And he convinces the troops and this is pretty clever how they do this. He convinces the

[01:00:42]
troops that someone out there is committing treason to basically make them all kill each other.

[01:00:50]
I get the feeling this isn't the first time Gene's done this because he had like a script,

[01:00:55]
basically. Like obviously he wasn't reading anything, but you can tell that he's, he knows how to use

[01:01:01]
his power to, you know, like basically hit, you know, let's delete the whole thing and start fresh.

[01:01:06]
Like this plan didn't work out, so I have to move forward. This film, if I could really liquid

[01:01:14]
also quote unquote really liquid also a lot like, sure, if you know what I mean,

[01:01:21]
oh definitely. And I like, I like a lot of the snake emoting of just like this, stop firing. What

[01:01:30]
do you do? You know, like trying to win all of them are trying to defend themselves. They don't

[01:01:34]
know what's going on. Yeah, it's just a, it's a fucking nightmare of what's going on. Like there's

[01:01:39]
just like, it's just a shootout and everybody's murdering everybody, which is insane. And can

[01:01:45]
I add one more thing? Yes, please. My notes say literally, good to hear Sokolov's horrified crying

[01:01:51]
sound is still the same. Yeah. Sokolov again, like, what a, I don't look pretty cool idea, right?

[01:02:03]
Sokolov didn't die in MGS three. It's a pretty logical reason. He's like, yeah, I thought my design

[01:02:09]
was pretty good, but clearly Grandin had something better and I wanted to go even more than that,

[01:02:14]
right? But then once he said I was going to use it on Russia, it's like, dude, you know how this,

[01:02:18]
you've already been fooled before like, what are you doing? Yeah, come on. Morgan already dropped a

[01:02:23]
nuke in Russia the last time. Like, what are you doing dumbass? So, but again, he may have been

[01:02:30]
mind controlled or whatever through the successor project jeans. But of course, Jean beautifully

[01:02:36]
escapes the fray and hen and heads to Metal Gear, which we learned there's a potential another one

[01:02:43]
because the Raja was a test model. And there's like some final shooting, we're trying to protect

[01:02:50]
each other, we're doing everything. And of course, it appears snake is about to take a fatal shot

[01:02:56]
and Jonathan jumps in his way and dies in the shootout. Now I did put this in here. And this

[01:03:04]
is for everybody. This is going to be for the listeners too, because I do want to hear from you

[01:03:07]
guys. Did we care enough about Jonathan in this game? Tori, from your response, how did you feel

[01:03:15]
about Jonathan? I wanted to cry. I miss Jonathan to this day. Yeah, I just, I mean, that made me

[01:03:26]
love him even fucking more, man. This is a guy who has displayed the utmost loyalty. He was

[01:03:35]
completely loyal to Jean until, you know, he realized that the wool was being pulled over his

[01:03:40]
eyes. He's been completely loyal to snake to the extent that he takes a bullet for him. And that's

[01:03:46]
just, it sucks. But like, that I thought that was a pretty cool way to resolve Jonathan's story.

[01:03:55]
Because obviously Jonathan doesn't come back up as a character later in the series, right? He can't,

[01:03:59]
it would be shitty just to be like, oh, well, that was a really loyal

[01:04:04]
comrade of snakes. And now he, now they don't work together. Oh, well,

[01:04:09]
he gets a card in Metal Gear acid too. That's what, that's what that's the best case scenario

[01:04:15]
for Jonathan. Right. So it sucks. And I'm sad. But I think it makes sense. It makes sense,

[01:04:21]
story wise. And I mean, like, you can't expect zero casualties from Team Alpha, you know.

[01:04:31]
True. What about you, Chris, with Jonathan? Is that your boy?

[01:04:35]
You know, anyone that says that this game is a canon disrespects Jonathan's memory.

[01:04:43]
Disrespects the memory. Probably one of the most compelling characters in the Metal Gear canon.

[01:04:49]
Hey, hey, cheers to that. Yeah, you know what? Cheers to Jonathan.

[01:04:53]
Fucking good call, Chris. Yeah, because I had a poor one out for my homie.

[01:04:58]
Yeah, I mean, let's be real because a lot of the characters in this game, it's like,

[01:05:03]
there's only five people in the whole world and everyone else is an NPC. But this game,

[01:05:08]
it makes an attempt to give a voice to those characters. And, you know, of all the events

[01:05:15]
that are going on in the world, it's people like Jonathan that are the most affected by that and

[01:05:21]
most impacted by the chaos of the times that in the Metal Gear saga, right? Jonathan is a pawn

[01:05:31]
in a much larger game, but Snake helps him, like, gives him the opportunity to take control of his

[01:05:40]
own situation so that he can, like, have some sense of agency in his life again.

[01:05:52]
And I think that's some of the deepest writing in the entire series.

[01:05:56]
I agree. This is, I mean, I was genuinely surprised with how invested I became in this story.

[01:06:05]
And not just in Jonathan's story, just in the whole, this whole creation, you know, this was

[01:06:11]
supposed to be a side game that only a fraction probably of the Metal Gear community was going

[01:06:18]
to end up playing. And to, in order to make that sell, I think they did what they had to. Obviously,

[01:06:27]
it probably wasn't as successful as they hoped, I think. But to compensate for the very limited

[01:06:35]
I don't know, playability, not even playability, just, you know, the other limited factors of

[01:06:43]
bringing this game to a portable system. This, this story beat, I think, alone was enough for me

[01:06:52]
to forgive all the frustrations I had with the game.

[01:06:57]
Yeah, this was a good, this was definitely my, I think this was the moment of the game where I was

[01:07:04]
I'm glad we did this one. Like, I'm like, I'm like, this is like, you can pick on the jank,

[01:07:10]
you can pick on the camera, you can pick on the color palette, it's like the stuff we still

[01:07:13]
pick on because we're, you know, analyzing this game for episode to episode. But the story holds up.

[01:07:21]
And definitely, like, I'm surprised we don't hear more about Jonathan when like,

[01:07:26]
YouTubers are like, top 10 Metal Gear, like Jonathan's a good character. Yeah, he is.

[01:07:31]
Good arc. And it's a good, it's a good representation of moving on of like,

[01:07:38]
you know, he's like proto riding, right? Like he's like the guy that's like, oh, dude, you're,

[01:07:43]
you're a big boss. Like, I've been reading, I've been reading up on you for years. Like,

[01:07:47]
he is that kind of guy of just like, Hey, man, if you're as good as you say you are, we got this

[01:07:52]
to the point where he defends you to his death is pretty, pretty great, pretty powerful stuff.

[01:07:57]
Like, I really, I really enjoyed it. And I, I get it was a little sarcastic Tory,

[01:08:02]
because she called me out on my notes when she was going over them. But again, I mean, some people,

[01:08:08]
you know, we're just like the guy that we got going the plans game for like five hours, I'm

[01:08:11]
supposed to care about this guy. I don't agree with that sort of, you know, Lucy goosey mentality.

[01:08:16]
I, I was pretty invested. I mean, Jonathan, I would say I'm a little more invested than Alisa.

[01:08:22]
But Alisa, like they almost had similar back stories, like Jonathan's the reason why we even

[01:08:26]
knew what the hell was going on at San Jorano. Anyway, yeah, hey, we got sent here to defend a

[01:08:30]
nuclear base that basically they forgot about. So now we just sit here fucking doing nothing. I got

[01:08:35]
a family at home. Like we learned that there's a lot of stakes for him and the soldiers in general

[01:08:40]
through him, like he's their arbiter, I guess, or like their vote, their voice.

[01:08:46]
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's, that's the part that I think makes him stand out as, as a representation

[01:08:55]
of something larger. You know, we, I think the community talks a lot about how Kojima sees

[01:09:03]
the world and, and, and imitates it through his art, right? Some people like to, to call that

[01:09:13]
that he's that he's predicting right predictions of the future. But I think it's, it's more likely

[01:09:18]
that Kojima sees these themes that have gone on in war torn spaces and he recreates them in his

[01:09:27]
games. And this is definitely one of those that I was appreciative, appreciative to have experienced,

[01:09:35]
because I don't know when a war is going on individually, I think we rarely think of how

[01:09:44]
the soldiers are affected. Usually we're thinking, how is this going to affect me in my life?

[01:09:50]
How is this going to affect the overall structure of our country and, and stuff like that. But,

[01:09:55]
in Jonathan's case and in his, his fellow soldiers cases, like you said, Warren, he was,

[01:10:03]
they were left out to dry. You know what I mean? And, and that's a reality for a lot of people

[01:10:09]
that engage in war. It's not, I mean, it's not just you fight for something noble and,

[01:10:17]
because you're fighting for something noble, you win. You know what I mean?

[01:10:20]
Right.

[01:10:21]
So I really appreciate Jonathan's character because it's, it's eye opening for how these

[01:10:25]
things really go. And that's one thing that I appreciate about Kojima's storytelling.

[01:10:30]
I'm not, I'm not trying to be all up his ass or anything. Like he, I don't think he did

[01:10:34]
everything perfectly with this game. He and, and team, I guess, I don't know. I don't know how,

[01:10:40]
I want to be careful to trade that territory, but we'll just say, we'll just say the writers,

[01:10:43]
because it includes, his influence is clearly here, but then also there's clearly a separate

[01:10:49]
voice here. So if you just, the writers get the credit because I wouldn't know who to call out.

[01:10:54]
And maybe it's a question to bother Ryan about this to be like, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, who,

[01:10:58]
who decided on Jonathan? Like, because I honestly, as we're talking about this, he, I think he's

[01:11:03]
going to be the mascot of this season. Oh, Jonathan. Like Jonathan's going to be like our baby.

[01:11:10]
Hey, Ryan, do you want to be our mascot? You want to be our Jonathan?

[01:11:15]
So just a quick fun tidbit here and we can do this. So we're recording a little ahead because

[01:11:19]
we're trying to be very active with this stuff. So this episode is supposed to drop April 19th.

[01:11:25]
Okay. So a little peek behind the curtain. Since the day after we dropped this episode

[01:11:31]
would be 420. I think, I think we figure something out between now and 420. I think we make it like

[01:11:40]
a Jonathan appreciation post, have a beer forum, do it in the discord. Oh, I'm down. I think we do

[01:11:47]
that. So we'll let our patrons know and listeners will find a way to include you guys. We'll try to

[01:11:52]
post about it or we'll talk about it after this, but I think we should do like a little

[01:11:56]
Jonathan, pour one out for Jonathan on 420. I'm just throwing that out there now.

[01:12:00]
That's so sweet. And here's the thing. I want to go back to something you said earlier, Warren.

[01:12:05]
I know that not everybody is going to care about Jonathan the way that I do. It's fine. He is,

[01:12:12]
at the end of the day, he's an NPC and an NPC that you don't even get

[01:12:17]
a hell of a lot of interaction with unless like me, you died as a snake in some boss battles that

[01:12:25]
were tough and you relied on the rest of your Alpha team. So I personally play it as Jonathan a lot.

[01:12:31]
And I think that that probably lends a little bit to my love of him. I get that not everybody's

[01:12:38]
going to be as as into it or excited about discussing their feelings about Jonathan.

[01:12:46]
That's what we're doing this for people. Have emotions. It's 2020 on Christ.

[01:12:49]
I have a fucking heart, Jesus. But no, I like that idea, Warren, and I certainly will celebrate

[01:12:56]
Jonathan on 420. Absolutely. I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it just because it makes

[01:13:01]
perfect sense. It's like I looked it up and I'm like, this seems too good to not bring up like

[01:13:05]
during the recording. So all right. So laying Jonathan to rest, I'm going to tell you guys,

[01:13:13]
we, my choice as far as like how the story is going to flow, this is where we're going to end

[01:13:17]
this episode of Metal Gear Mondays Revengeance Portable Obsidition.

[01:13:23]
Leaving you on a dramatic note. Like what are we going to do now that we've lost Alisa and

[01:13:30]
Jonathan? Gene is gone. We know Ocelot's involved. There's another Metal Gear. Like shit is lit.

[01:13:37]
Right. And Cunningham's still out there. That psycho bastard. Yeah. Cunningham's out there.

[01:13:41]
He's still ready to go and Noel. We still have Noel too. We know he's still around.

[01:13:47]
So there's still a lot to talk about. I'm sorry. Did you guys find it jarring that we were fighting

[01:13:53]
a Metal Gear at this point in the game and we still had a pretty good amount to cover afterwards?

[01:13:59]
Because usually Metal Gear, you know, except in Peace Walker Onward, I guess, Metal Gear is

[01:14:05]
something you expect towards the end of the game. It's like end game status. So and I know that it

[01:14:11]
was a test model and and I appreciate that as a as a piece of the story. But when it came to

[01:14:20]
actually fighting Metal Gear, Raja, were you guys prepared for that?

[01:14:26]
Me personally, no, I thought it was soon. I thought I was way closer to the end than I was

[01:14:33]
when I played it because I was like, oh, shit, we there's got to be one more

[01:14:37]
half naked fistfight at the level of Raja, right? Like that's what we're doing. That's how this

[01:14:42]
works. Like Gene's going to show his fucking sculpted abs underneath that dope jacket in his hat.

[01:14:47]
Either that or a swordfight, right? Yeah, some sort of laser swordfight or some crazy shit.

[01:14:52]
I don't know, Chris, like what did you think? I mean, as far as my expectations on the normalcy

[01:15:00]
of the situation, it's not really any different at all from some of the crazy stuff that we

[01:15:06]
experienced later on in the franchise. Sure. It's fair. The pacing is a little strange to me

[01:15:13]
and a little foreign, but I think that's just because it was the first time they tried to take

[01:15:17]
a Metal Gear experience and make it portable in the sense like, well, I know Ghost Babble

[01:15:24]
predates this. Ghost Babble is basically just an NES game on a portable, right? And this is like

[01:15:34]
a game with a portable mindset design focus. So correct. Yeah, it's not just ported, quote,

[01:15:41]
unquote, it was designed in mind, right? Right. And I think you have to look at the plot beats

[01:15:46]
from that perspective for it to make sense. Sure. Well, good. Well, let us know, guys,

[01:15:54]
how you feel about the placement of this Metal Gear fight and how you feel about Jonathan.

[01:16:17]
Yeah, this is going to wrap up another episode of Metal Gear Mondays Revengeance,

[01:16:38]
portable ops edition. Before we do our little sign offs again, guys, we appreciate all the

[01:16:43]
downloads and however you listen to us, if you find a way to rate and review, we would greatly

[01:16:48]
appreciate it. And we have noticed that you guys have been doing that, which is fantastic. We love

[01:16:53]
you dearly for that. We have a Patreon at Metal Gear Mondays. You can sign up on our Discord for

[01:17:00]
a buck a month. We have a lot of stuff outside of that. If you increase, we do the on the off weeks,

[01:17:06]
we drop episodes, we do a Metal Gear, we have a game club, like so a monthly game club, we have

[01:17:12]
a monthly movie club now, which we are dubbing MGM goes to the movies. We are still trying to figure

[01:17:17]
out how we're going to talk about them in a more case, but we always drop an episode now,

[01:17:21]
we're committing to that, as well as some merch, you can get a bit.ly slash MGM store.

[01:17:28]
And I guess Metal Gear Mondays.com, if you want to, you know, see what's going on with

[01:17:31]
current host, previous host, if you want to find a way to contact, that's like one of the easiest

[01:17:36]
ways to do it. But otherwise, Tori, where can they find you on the internet? You can find me in the

[01:17:43]
Discord and some other social places at youngneal, it's Y-N-G-N-E-I-L. You can find me,

[01:17:58]
just, you can find me morning the loss of my sweet and beloved Jonathan

[01:18:07]
at some random graveyard with some, what are those flowers that we had for the boss?

[01:18:14]
What are those lilies or? Oh no, I think they're a kind of lily. Oh no, I think it's cherry blossom

[01:18:19]
actually. It's definitely cherry blossom, god. The cherry blossoms. Yeah, you can find me at your

[01:18:25]
local graveyard with holding a bouquet of cherry blossoms. Local graveyard.

[01:18:33]
Chris, how about you, man? Where can they find you on the internet? You can find me on LinkedIn,

[01:18:41]
getting that grind on or in the Discord. There it is, there it is. Yeah, and I guess for me,

[01:18:49]
you can find me at Warren Minnix on all the socials that I'm old, so I don't use them very much.

[01:18:54]
I'm untaggable gamer if it matters and I change my name weekly in the Discord, but you can find

[01:19:01]
me there a ton. I think outside of one final drop of, so we are going to be doing a listener

[01:19:08]
episode at the end of this season, it'll come out like late June is our plan. So as you're

[01:19:14]
listening to this, we're going to set a date for June 14th. If we can have your responses by June

[01:19:20]
14th would be perfect. We may slide that date around here and there, but the intent is that

[01:19:25]
the episode will drop at the end of June based on that, but as you are hearing this, there'll be a

[01:19:30]
lot of time between this recording dropping and June 14th. So again, guys, we thank you so much

[01:19:37]
for listening, downloading, subscribing, whatever you do to do this, and I think it's time to let a

[01:19:42]
ripjack. It's been a while since I did that one.