Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action

A Conversation with F1NG3RS (Metal Gear-Inspired Musician)

January 11, 2021 Metal Gear Mondays Season 2
A Conversation with F1NG3RS (Metal Gear-Inspired Musician)
Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
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Metal Gear Mondays — Tactical Podcast Action
A Conversation with F1NG3RS (Metal Gear-Inspired Musician)
Jan 11, 2021 Season 2
Metal Gear Mondays

Huge thanks to F1NG3RS for hanging out with Warren, Chris, and Ghost Dad Alessio! Tune in to hear about his work, (both Metal Gear inspired and original creations) favorite installment of Metal Gear, and more. 

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

Show Notes Transcript

Huge thanks to F1NG3RS for hanging out with Warren, Chris, and Ghost Dad Alessio! Tune in to hear about his work, (both Metal Gear inspired and original creations) favorite installment of Metal Gear, and more. 

Support the Show.

Psst... did you know that you could converse with fellow listeners on our Discord? Yes, even now. Right this very moment.

Find more cool links and goodies on our Linktree. And, we have to mention the amazing Metal Gear Mondays Interactive Database that "Dragonhide" put together for us. You can search for anything across every episode. Super cool!

And, if you need to contact the show, feel free to do so using this link.

Here's to your dear listeners and welcome back to another episode of Metal Gear Monday's

Revengeance where you'll find some of your favorite conversations around Metal Gear and

Kojima related content delivered to you through tactical podcast action.

So today's a special episode.

We have done some interviews and when I say we, I just want to bring up a few people with


The first people are Alessio Somerfield.

What's up man?


And the other for today's interview, Mr. Chris Hampton.

How we doing?

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

Full of energy today.

So today's interview is with the, I guess we could call it the musician, the composer,

Fingers, who is sort of known in the Metal Gear verse with his remixes and some of his

other stuff, which he gladly goes into sort of his history.

Do you guys have fun with this conversation?

Oh, noted wordsmith and very, very fun man to talk to.

Fingers was a real treat.


I'm trying to think of a joke, something to say about Fingers and strumming my pain.

He was.

He was strumming my pain with his fingers.

He killed me softly with this podcast.

Oh my God.

I love the journey we just went on with you there, Alessio.

Thank you.

I'm trying to prodigit this person.



I was feeling real good about this guys.

I'm going to be honest.

And I just killed that for you, didn't I?

I love it.

Nah, it's great.

But yeah, so please feel free to listen through.

Fingers is an awesome guy.

We make sure he sort of has, you know, his Twitch, his YouTube, his music, follow him

on Facebook.

We make sure to, you know, we give him all the time in the world to plug because he's

a pretty rad dude.

For us, you can find this at Metal Gear

You can find us on any of the audio platforms.

It will be dropped on YouTube as well, if that's where you're hearing it.

Hi, YouTube.

Otherwise, Alessio, where can they find you?

I also just want to say, hey YouTube, how's the weather?

You can find me at AC Summerfield pretty much everywhere or for

everything, very easily found in one place as opposed to across many.

And yeah, no, Fingers is dope.

I've been following him on Bandcamp for a long time, so you can go to

I believe that's correct.

He says it as well.

But it's F1NG3RS music at most places.

But yes.

Where can they find you on the internet, my man?

Oh, you can't find me on the internet.

You can find me on the Discord.

You can find me on in the bio section.

You can find me on this podcast.

Chris's hesitance was Chris literally hiding the last vestige of his identity from the

internet during that question.

Yeah, I just deleted my Facebook right now.


Yeah, his finger was hovering over the enter key as he was paying off somebody to wipe

him from the internet.

I delivered my own nuclear payload into my online identity.

Super quick aside, I just need you guys to know I Googled myself trying to find my own

address on the internet and found it on the third page of Google and scared the shit

out of myself earlier today.

So that's a thing.

Oh yeah.

I mean, I guess it's hard.

I want you to own land or something along those lines.

It's tough to sort of keep that at bay.


As soon as the credit scores start floating.

I want you guys to go to

Right now?


That's where you can find me on the internet

100 percent.

This is the greatest website I've ever been to.

And I'm assuming you have nothing to do with this, Chris?

Oh, I have nothing.

I have nothing.

I did not.

This is not me.

Chris is going to be replaced on most appearances across the internet with just the contents

of this website moving forward.


I'm so proud of you, Chris.

I really am.

Cherish the sound of his voice because it's literally just a JPEG on a website.

It's amazing.

It does make sure you know he's in Georgia though.

So we got that going for us.

Chris, this could be you in like an alternate future, I think.

It could be, yeah.

At the Casa Blanca poster.

100 percent.

That's my favorite.


That and the fucking, what is it called?

The, that game.

He's got a game board in the background.

What is that thing where you sweep the pucks across the sandy little shuffleboard thing

at the bar?

The shuffleboard, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

There we go.

He's playing at a bar, clearly.

We can, we'll send this to noted mod and good friend Chad who runs the Discord.

We'll send this to him and I guarantee you he can tell you exactly where this photo was

taken in like an hour and a half.

He has so many like means of cross referencing and data gathering.

So spooky.

Well you can find me on the internet, Warren Minix.

I don't really have any shame as far as if you guys want to find me.

I really suck with social media.

However, if you're into gamer tags, I'm untaggable gamer.

You can get us a Patreon, Metal Gear Mondays and you can go to Metal Gear and

I believe we have some sweet merch you can grab from that website as well as some other

stuff there.

So thank you guys again and without further ado, an interview with Fingers.

All right.

Well, thanks for joining us Fingers.

How's everything going this evening?

I'm doing pretty good, man.

I'm feeling pretty good.

Just got a new track out today.

It's one of those like hectic promo days, you know, it goes.

I like it.

I like it.

Was the, so I, before we get, before we dive in proper, was the description, the style

and the title.

Are these all references to the jankiness of Cyberpunk 2077?

They weren't actually, but it's kind of funny how it like all kind of just like came together

with that.

Like we were talking about like themes and everything.

I was like, I was like, yeah, like if you look up the definition, it's like jank is like,

you know, like bad quality.

And then like junk can be like anything like it can be used for narcotics or just like

a substitute word like, Hey man, hand me that junk.

And it's just like, okay, cool.

So with, with jank junk, it was kind of like this word that didn't mean anything, but it

was like bad quality, anything, you know, so that's, it's a nonsense word pretty much.

It didn't really have anything to do with Cyberpunk, but the fact that Cyberpunk did

come out in such a janky state, you know, I might pair it up with Cyberpunk, you know,

just for some visuals later down the road.



Cyberpunk, man.

I was, I was looking forward to that, but I can't say that I'm super happy with it,

but I can't say that it's like unplayable, you know, I'm like, yeah, I mean, if we would

have given it more time, we, we probably would have had a better game, but we had to rush

it out and send death threats.

You dumb ass.


Oh my God.

Thanks for Christmas sales CDPR higher ups.

I bought a new Xbox for this game.


And it looks better, but there's just like some stuff you can't even finish, you know.


I mean, PC is the way to go apparently, but it's like, and I'm playing it on a base PS4.

I rented it from Gamefly.

So I'm kind of like, okay.

And like, I see the problems, but it's still not as bad as the online community is saying


And that's a big problem, I think with, with the Metal Gear community too, they like to

like blow stuff way out of proportion.

And then when people hear the news about it, they're like, Oh, I'm not going to touch that

game because XYZ.

And it's like, yeah, but it's really PDQ.

You know, it's like, it's not really those things.

It's really just this kind of thing.


I feel like I'm in a weird place because I literally got done logging my 64th hour in

cyber funk before we, before we jumped on this podcast, but I am playing on PC.

So fair enough.


There's a good game underneath all that stuff.

Like I can tell there's some, there's like, I like the quest lines.

Some of the characters are pretty cool.

Like the gunplay and the customizable, you know, customize ability is all there, but

it's like, they just had to rush it and here we are.


It's a pretty good Dosex game.

I will say that.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like System Shock, something like that.

It's a beautiful game and I'm having a blast with it.

There's just, I've hit points in the game on the console where I can't finish certain

quests because they bug out.

So I'm just going to piece out, I think, from it for a month or so.


Give it some time.


It's just some JangChunk.

I'll play some Shades of the Moon.

It's fine.

Yeah, man.

I took the High Road.

I am, I, you know, we talked about it in our discord and all that, but I was like,

guys, I think I'm, I think I'm going to take the, the couple month hiatus.

I'm going to play some other games.

Yeah, man.

There's this weird, like societal thing right now where it's like games are hot

for like a couple of weeks, a month maximum.

And then it's like, you're still playing that.

And it's like, man, what happened to games with like longevity and like staying


You really don't have that unless it's a games as a service type game.

And yeah, it's really weird how that time area has just gotten like much,

much shorter.

It's like people's attention spans are like, all right, what's next?

Like we beat that last week.

What are you talking about?


In a weird way.

And I think I've talked about this a few times in our discord, but like in a weird

way, I feel like it has been way easier to pay complete and total attention to

like VR games than it has normal games.

Cause you literally can't not look at the thing.

You know what I mean?

That's a good point.


It's like cut scenes.

I'm like, all right, cool cut scene.

Time to look at Twitter.

And it's like, oh, I missed the story.


So it's been like a weird, I don't know.

And in general, it's been bizarre.

And I think, uh, I don't know, man, it feels like the past 11 months, it's

been like a new console, a new game, a new thing.

And like, and then there's this, and then there's this.

And I was looking at my backlog and I'm like, dude, I haven't even touched

like 30 games from 2019.

Yeah, exactly.

Like what am I doing right now?

Buying all the new stuff as it comes out on day one.



Um, so getting into, uh, uh, today's episode proper, I wanted to ask, um, so I

mean, all of us know you from your presence on Twitter, your band camp.

You've been pretty much, I don't, as far as I'm concerned, I feel like you might

be like the Metal Gear Solid community, like fan community, like musician guy

that like I've just always known exists on the internet.

Um, but how do you introduce yourself to somebody like your mother's friend?

How do you intro what you do?

Well, I normally don't bring up the Metal Gear stuff first and foremost.

Uh, I, I like, I am an electronic musician.

Uh, I, I make music that's original.

I make music that's covers of video games.

Uh, I do remixes.

Uh, and I, I do, I do also DJ my sets and my music when I'm out, but I don't

necessarily call myself a DJ.

I'm a person that DJs.

Um, so yeah, it's, it's mainly like, uh, an electronic music producer is like my

title, I guess you would say.

And then the whole Metal Gear side of it, like, I think it was seven years ago, I

started, uh, being admin on this page called Solid Snake.

And that was on Facebook and that's, uh, slash solid snake, Lolls, L, U, L, Z.

And back then it was kind of just like, uh, one of those like mixed meme pages

where it was like, there was hundreds of them on Facebook back in the day.

I was just like, post whatever people like it and they share it, whatever.

But yeah, it was named Solid Snake and like they were posting a lot of good

Metal Gear content, but also all this other stuff.

And I was like, man, and I got kind of cool with the admins and stuff.

And basically I got to become one of the admins after a while.

And I was like, Hey, what if we shifted this to like just Metal Gear?

We cut out all the random memes that aren't related and we switched it over to

that. And they were like, actually, that's a great idea.

Like if we stick to just that, it'll be our core audience.

And that was back when it was like, it had like 15,000 likes on it at that point.

And so I, and like over the course of like two or three years, we got it up to

over a hundred thousand people on there.

And it just got to be this huge meme community where it was just like, that

was what we were. You know, I guess we were like the biggest

unofficial Metal Gear page on Facebook besides like Metal Gear Solid,

like by Konami and stuff. So that's crazy. Congratulations.

Thanks, man. Yeah.

And so like as as an admin there, you're constantly posting artwork.

You're constantly posting, you know, people's videos that were out.

And for me, I was like, all right, I can make memes.

I know how to Photoshop, but I also can make remixes.

So I would take a lot of the Metal Gear songs.

And what most people know me as is the guy that made the damn fiddle remix.

It's like, yeah, I made the they played us like a damn fiddle remix.

And that that's like my most popular thing.

That's my Harlem Shake, the thing that I'm not super proud of, but follows me everywhere.

But yeah, so that's kind of like my, I guess my name got out there is from people

looking at that remix and going, oh, fingers, it's spelled with a one and a three.

OK, and that just kind of stuck in their brain.

So whenever they see me in the Metal Gear community outside of that, they go,

oh, you're the fiddle guy.

And I'm like, yep, that's me.

And so like I get comments every day there, you know, in that comment or sorry,

the remix is of, you know, cause, of course, when he says they played us like a damn fiddle,

but it has samples in there when he's when he says, you spy, bitch.

And so I took that one little bitch and like that's like the the chant and the song

is he's just going, bitch, bitch.

And then I also sampled it when a lot said it in MGS three.

I did take that one too and threw it in there.

So there would be like alternating ones.

Yeah. Yeah. So I just get I'll get like comments all the all the time

where it's just like, bitch.

And I'm like, hey, oh, OK, it's about that.

It's like Dave Chappelle at Walt Disney World.

Yeah. I'm Rick James.

Yeah. So you just hear in that being shouted at you or in your comments.

And it's like, OK, it's these people. Cool.

Metal Gear is the fan.

What's the what's the worst thing that you've ever had to?

This might be a little loaded.

What's the worst thing that you've ever had to moderate or admin away from existence

on that Facebook page?

Oh, man.

If you can talk about it.

Yeah. I mean, people get real nasty in comments, man.

And it's like as soon as they start going like it's like you can kind of like

insult each other, like, I'll let that happen.

You know, they're like, oh, shut up, dumbass.

And it's like, all right, cool.

But it's like any any of the any time to get racist, I'm like, you're out of here.

Any time they're like homophobic, really, I'm like, you're out of here.

It's like I'm just not going to like tolerate that really.

You know, I'm not I'm not about that.

For sure. I live in Virginia and it's kind of like.

That state when it comes to like confederacy and all this like the real

racism stuff. So like any time I see people like really just like even like

playing at it, I'm like, nah, man, you can't be doing that here.

You know, that's that's not what we're about here.

So that's that's the kind of stuff that I really try to just knock out as soon as I see it.


Yeah. Other than Warren's Yankee ass, I think me and me and Chris have spent a long time

living down south to amplify that type of stuff.

There's plenty of it out there.

The worst I get is John when I call things John.

That and pop.

Yeah, then you'll get like people like kind of like obsessed on something.

They'll start like looking you up and looking up details and stuff.

And it's like, man, why are you why are you doing all this?

And that those people can get kind of scary and you just got like block them

and they make another account and it's like, OK, I can do this all day, man.

So yeah. Yeah. Oh, geez.

So that, I mean, all started sounds like seven ish years ago.

When when were you when would you say that you were like bitten by the metal gear bug?

I mean, was it with the PS one game like like most people or was it?

Yeah, it was definitely earlier than that.

But like it wasn't a hard bite at first.

It was kind of like a nibble at first.

It was I played the NES game when I was a kid.

I had older brothers that were like six and seven years older than me.

And they had all the games that, you know, were coming out.

And I remember playing metal gear as a kid and going, Oh, my God, this is hard as shit.

How do I get past this first little section and never really went back to it?

But then my cousin came to me later and it was in 1998.

Yeah. And said, Hey, man, there's remember that game, metal gear.

They're making a new one called Metal Gear Solid.

And I was like, well, that sounds dumb.

But just based off the title, like I was like, cool, great naming convention.

But then I later played it on the demo desk.

And that first time where the guards saw the footsteps

and started looking after me, I was like, Oh, this is some new shit.

Like this is this is next level.

And I think that is the moment where I was like, yo, OK, this like really got me into it.

And anybody that pretends like they knew about the MSX versions

before the HD collection or the internet, shut up.

That's like we grew up on Metal Gear and Snakes Revenge.

And then we had the PlayStation.

And then we learned about the MSX stuff like way later down the road, you know,

right? And then we all pretended like like we know about it.

I'll still I'll still cling to my hipster subsistence disc

because that that had those on there. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. It was like any once they started

rereleasing them over here, it's like, OK, now we can talk about it,

particularly like we know about it.

But like no one really knew about the Japanese versions in my immediate circle at all.

So it was for sure.

That was definitely like when he was referencing Zanzibar Land,

you're like reading through the book, like, when did this shit happen?

Like, yeah, this is.

So I think that curiosity of like trying to complete that

like kind of got me thinking about it a lot more.

And then when MGS 2 came out, I was like, here we go.

And that I like we got that immediately.

And me and a buddy played that like the first night it came out

and just set up all night and just got through it.

Yeah, but it really bit us hard.

And we were we thought we were kind of like tripping out at the end, you know,

because it was like four in the morning and like kernels freaking out, doing his

AI stuff or like, are we supposed to turn the console?

Keep it on. Keep it on.

Do not. Why would you turn it off?

That's amazing. Yeah, it definitely bit hard around that.

Like and I was in high school around that time in MGS 2.

So it was like eighth or ninth grade.

Yeah, when that came out. So.

Nice. Yeah, I 100 percent.

I think we're in the same exact age pocket

because it was the exact same year for me.

Yeah, I was born in 87.

So that's 11 years old when Middle Gear Solid came out.

So that's yeah, that's quite the impressionable age of like,

wow, this is going to this is going to really change my life and worldview on things.

Yeah, this is super sick.

Yeah. And I often I often think because of that Zanzibar land stuff early on

in the Frank Yeager, Gray Fox, where you're like, who the fuck are these people?

Even big big boss, like hearing big boss and seeing big boss in the instruction

manual, but never actually seeing him in the game.

It's like, I feel like those things made it better.

And I do wonder if there's like a diminishing returns with the series

as it tried to make that stuff materialize more and more.

Yeah. But anyway, before I fall into a hole, yeah.

I wanted to ask, I mean, so how do you go from solid snake

lulls on Facebook to Kojima, the Kojima Productions Network

with Ryan and Chelsea and everybody?

So like, could you kind of bridge the gap into like modern day?

Yeah, I guess, I mean, it's funny.

Ryan, AKA Nitroid, he basically was like a fan of the solid snake page

and was just like a person that would comment on there.

Little did I know he used to run Metal Gear Solid, the unofficial site

and was an ad like so he's like in the old school crew of like the people

that I used to go on his website and look around.

And so it was this full circle thing of like, oh, yeah, we've been in the

community for a while and we got along like perfectly.

We're like, OK, cool.

And as far as days goes, I met her through Tumblr and that was actually

through the fiddle remix.

She was she had reblogged that.

And I was like promoting a concert that I was playing that night.

I was like, hey, I'm DJing the night at this club.

And she's like, oh, you live in the same state I do.

Word. And I was like, yeah, you should come out.

And she came out and we met and oh, wow.

You know, it was just, you know, a cool friendly meetup.

And and then like over the past couple of years, I've been, you know,

with all the podcasting boom, I was like, man, I'd love to do a Metal Gear podcast

because this is something I can talk about all day, every week.

It doesn't matter.

You know, it's just something that I have that much information on

that I can talk about it enough.

And I think like podcasting is like it's like breaking bad.

You know, it's all about chemistry.

And I was looking for people to do it with and we tried out a bunch of different people.

And I was like, I don't know about these.

They're all that didn't work out that great.

But when we when we first got the group together, it was four of us.

And we had like like Ninja Turtles level chemistry.

It was like we like, yeah, it was perfect.

Like Nitrode was Leo.

I was like the goofy Mikey.

Days was like the analytical Donatello.

And then we had Vector, who was just like this angry guy that would like

contradict whatever we would say would be like, we're excited.

He'd be like, fuck your excitement.

But here's the reason why.

And that's he wasn't just like, you know, that's not to talk any kind of shit

towards right. He's not just like a blind hater.

It's like this sucks.

He's got very good taste and very good like expectations for stuff.

And he'll tell you why something should have gone one way or the writing error.

You know, like when you have somebody that's into movies and film on that level,

it can get, you know, your expectations get a little higher.

And then for me, I'm just kind of like carefree, like whatever I enjoyed,

survive, you know, I have fun with whatever it's all good.

So, you know, you breezed right through that.

I appreciate the confidence in what you delivered that line.

Yeah. So, you know, it's basically just like we had a good chemistry.

And, you know, I think that that finally hit.

That was at the beginning of this year.

And we started kind of doing some test recordings and trying to figure out

the format and stuff in like early January of this year.

And we basically, I told him, I was like, let's record a few episodes

and keep them in the bank.

And then that way, when we start rolling them out, we've got kind of like a backlog.

And if we if we can't record that week, we've got like this little bank here.

And so that's got we started like releasing them in like June of this year.

You know, and that's we've just been slowly cranking them out.

We're on episode 25 right now on the Kajima frequency.

And we've got we got a nice little holiday break situated right now.

So we're taking like two weeks off and then we're going to be hitting it back again in 2021.

So nice.

And thus began the great podcast Cold War.

So the real question is, which one of us is zero and which one of us is big boss?

But I don't know.

You get. Yeah, I think you guys came first.

So I think you get the zero title on that.

Oh, no.

That means nitroids going to cut our oxygen tanks off in our wheelchair.

Pretty much. God damn it.

Oh, no, then I have to fight nitroids.


So so fingers, you had brought up.

So again, the bug sort of bit you like that early on.

Metal Metal Gear solid in a word.

Were you like the only person or like you maybe had like a couple of friends

like growing up with Metal Gear, where you like the person that sort of like

made Metal Gear like niche, in a sense.

And did like the music tie to that at all?

Or was it just more like this this game's dope?

I think like when it when it first came out, it was I played through with it

with my brother and and my cousin.

And so it was kind of just like there wasn't too many friends that had it.

I think there was maybe three people in middle school that had it.

And one one guy wrote his sixth grade report on it.

I remember that he was like my favorite gift that I ever got was Metal Gear solid.

And I was like, all right, cool.

But then like after that, there really wasn't that many people

that were into it in my like immediate circle.

And then I had another friend when I like moved and changed schools.

And then we played through that.

That was the same guy that I played MGS to together with.

And he's been a guy that I've talked to Metal Gear with.

But like, I'm like, hey, man, did you play snake eater?

And it's like, ah, no, I missed that one.

I'm like, oh, you play for it.

No, I didn't have PS3.

And it's like, I can't talk to you about Metal Gear, man.

Like it's like so it's like I would have people that were like, yeah,

I played Metal Gear solid to us.

It was fun.

Didn't play anything else though.

And I'm like, you don't get it then.

Like that's, I mean, you're getting a small piece of it,

but it's that's not the level on that I'm at on this at all.

So yeah.

And then as far as like the music tying into it, I think being inspired

by the music that's in Metal Gear solid is definitely something that happened.

The mix that they like the mix of genres that Metal Gear brings to the table,

like really just shows off Kojima's like diversity

when it comes to applying music to situations, I think he's really good at that.

You know, he's got like good music selection.

It can go from tense, moody, like background music that's not doing too much

or like really melodic.

You know, if you look at the older, the retro MSX two games,

like I love the soundtrack to Metal Gear two, Solid Snake.

Some of the like those are just so real.


Like classic, the textures, the chips that they were using back then to make them.

I've done a few covers and remixes, but I, you know,

there's something about that that era that that sound, you know,

that was coming out of those chips that are just like, Chef's kiss.

So yeah, a lot of people have told me my music will remind them of certain type things

like, oh, yeah, I feel like I'm infiltrating a thing or like I'm sneaking around.

I get more like hotline Miami comparisons and like that that kind of like genre

where it's that like gnarly kind of electronic.

But I've done songs definitely that are similar to Metal Gear in nature.

And like I've had albums and song titles that are references.

I think like my song corridors, that was like a direct imagery of Gray Fox,

kind of like when you're walking down that corridor, you know, the bloody hallway.

And it's like, that's kind of what I had in my mind when I did that.

I have a song on my second album called Retaliation.

I had just finished watching the MGSV trailer

when Venom Snakes just walking down the hall and, you know,

he slowly turns more and more bloody.

And, you know, that was the Retaliation Breeds Retaliation trailer.

And so that like that quick little theme like got me in a mind state where I was

like, let's write some music that's, you know, it's about retaliation

and like that feel and that mood.

So I would say Metal Gear has definitely lended itself to my creation a lot,

but it may not be directly inspired like the music itself, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

Like were you a band kid in high school when you were playing these games

or did you get like into music like later in life?

I started music just as like I was like six years old.

I had a little Casio keyboard and I would just play by ear.

You did.

Yeah, you did. That's awesome.

Yeah. I had a little sampler on it too, where you could like talk into it,

record your voice and you could play it down and like, yeah, it was great.

But then around like, yeah, around middle school, a band came around as the elective.

And I was like, let me try Saxophone.

I like I like how that Saturday night, Saturday night live sound, you know,

how that blaring saxophone sound.

I like Kenny G. I want to learn how to do that.

And then I didn't like the way that the reeds smell and I didn't like the taste of wood

and I switched to drums.

Yeah. So I went over to percussion at that point in seventh grade.

And then that's why I was like, oh, drums are my thing.

Like I got this and that turned into like mallet percussion where I wasn't just

playing the drums, I was playing the xylophone, the bells, all the like

noted instruments because I knew how to play piano and all these dumb

not to be shitty, all these dumb drummers didn't know how to read music.

But but really drummers know how to read rhythm.

But like when it comes to notation, it's a whole different thing that they

aren't required to learn necessarily.

So it's like they know the rhythm of the notes.

But anyway, I was the only guy that knew how to read the notes.

So they would stick me on on the noted stuff, on the noted instruments for the most part.

I did that, you know, all throughout middle school and then high school came around.

And that's when I switched over to drumline.

And that was a lot of fun, just like being in a group, you know, and you're just like

dependent on each other to all hit the right notes and make a make a sweet beat happen.

But yeah, it was a lot of drums, a lot of, you know, mallet percussion.

I was in like the pit on like the sidelines for some songs.

I was marching bass drum and I would put on this the quint, you know,

the tenor drums where it was like five, you know, yeah, as heavy as hell.

But yeah, you know, it's been music like my whole life.

And I think, you know, just just having that like that musical background, like

and just the just enough like education in it where it's like, OK,

like I'm no expert on music theory or anything like that.

I didn't like fully dive into that side of it.

I'm more like Nick Cannon and drumline where like if you play it, I see you and I'm like,

all right, cool, I got that.

Repeat it back. All right, I got it.

But I can read the sheet music too.

Just just, you know, there's levels to this music theory.

Sure. Definitely not in the the full mastery zone yet.

But I am learning every day and trying to improve.

So, yeah, band definitely helped that.

The name of this episode is now going to be a conversation with fingers,

parentheses, the Nick Cannon of percussion.

Well, I guess I guess that leads me to ask because it seems very, you know,

cheesy in a sense of talking about musical influences.

But you just brought a percussion like is sort of your history.

And, you know, we're talking about Jank Jank earlier.

And that does seem to have, you know, a lot of your stuff does have a very

full on the floor, percussive, sort of like, you know, get your body

moving style and sort of sprinkling the stuff.

Is that is that like where you start when it comes to like musical influences?

Like, is that something you like to like feel that first and then

trickle in the other stuff? Or is it just more like I got something?

So you're saying like start starting with drums, like starting just with drums?

Yeah, like that just it seems like that's your, you know, yeah.

That'll normally be like, I mean, like, you know, my my band teacher taught me

is like, you know, drums are the foundation, you know, if they're not there,

you're really not going to feel much, you know.

So it's like, you can start a song without drums and it's like, all right.

But it's like, when those drums hit, that's when all of a sudden everybody knows

what to do. You know, it's like you're you're now conducting everybody

where their head should be landing and telling where they should, you know,

how they should be dancing pretty much.

If you clap on one and three, you're doing it wrong.

You should be clapping on two and four.

So, you know, I think as a drummer, yeah, I definitely I put in a lot of,

you know, drum heavy stuff, but I try to make it not the the star.

And that's another thing that my band teacher taught me that stuck with me.

He was like, a good drummer, you don't really notice.

They're just there and they're not messing up or anything.

It's just like they're there and they're filling in the gaps perfectly.

They're subdividing, you know, where you're not supposed to be.

And they're syncopating over here and giving you everything else that you need.

But you're not necessarily noticing.

I'm not saying, hey, look at me.

And that's I try to do that more like melodically.

Like I'll have the drums going and then I'll bring in a melody and it's like,

oh, look at that. That's new.

And I think that's that's like a good thing with music is you try to you give them

50 percent expected stuff and 50 percent unexpected stuff.

And so if you get that resolve and, you know, you get the you get the shock of like,

oh, I'm expecting that to take that turn here.

And I think with this jank junk song in the middle of it,

it does like a complete pull the e-brake, do a 180,

slide into the other lane and start driving the other direction kind of move.

It's really cool. Like I like how it turned out with Vector.

We just basically put like a record break on it.

And then his section of the song starts up and it's just like this.

But it but it all flows together.

It's it's cohesive and it doesn't make you go, wait, what?

So I think, yeah, having that driving

four on the floor, you know, that house beat behind it is

is just going to keep you going through that, you know.

So it's very important.

Yeah, I would say it does drive a lot of my stuff for sure.

So, yeah, I got to say I like I didn't want to like ask how the sausage was made

in a sense, because I, you know, I've been trying to keep up with Twitter and all that.

I'm not a big Twitter guy.

But when it seems like when you sent the track to Vector,

he sort of added his flavor towards the end.

So you say that record break piece.

I kind of like that because I was going to ask, well, what did it start?

Did you give him a beat?

Did he, you know, kind of roll from there?

So it's nice to know that it's sort of like, oh, I like what I heard.

And I I put my little spin on it and then we, you know, collabed.

Make it like a real real.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, that's pretty much how like I like I like doing collabs.

I think it's it's fun.

You're going to get a different result than if it were just you, of course.

You know, so like I did a song last year called Tombstone,

and I did that with my buddies, Mentor Mint and Goth Mystery Mafia.

And the idea was like, I was like, hey, I got this cool little patch right here.

And I've got a cool melody and it's really simple.

And that's, you know, like I was like, the simplicity here is going to help us.

And so I sent it to all three guys as a midi file.

Like so basically I had like an idea of like what this song was going to do.

And like so the midi file is basically like like digital sheet music for your

computer to tell, you know, which notes to play.

So I would send them that and then say, hey, man, use whatever voices you want to

use, whatever instruments, whatever patches, go crazy, go nuts, have fun.

And it's like, when you tell someone to do that, they're like, oh, OK,

I can do like my own style and my own thing.

It's like, yeah.

And that's what I told Vector with this song.

I was like, dude, here's here's the here's the midi file.

Here's what I've got.

Like you hear out starting.

I've got this whole like disco funk thing going.

All right.

Now you do what you would do if you were like, if you were to receive this midi,

how would you do it?

And then we'll turn it around and we'll figure it out.

We'll make it cohesive.

And with this song, he actually did go back and like redo it.

We were originally going to have three people on this.

And then the third person got too busy.

And so then that kind of changed it up because we were leaving a slot for that

third person. We didn't want to go too heavy.

And then we're like, all right, third person's out.

Go full out.

You know, and so that's kind of that's how we we did that is just just sending it

back and forth and going, yeah, I like that part.

Maybe adjust that part and that'll you know, that'll work out here.

But it's it's a full like back and forth kind of thing normally.

But yeah, I mean, he every time he sent me something, I was like, this sounds great.

And then he would be self critical and be like, I don't know.

I don't like this part.

I'm going to go back and work on it some more.

It's like, OK, man, that's fine.

But yeah, we ended up with something pretty good, I think.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, man.

So like if you could score any video game then or any film, have you considered that?

Is that a reality for you?

Scoring would be like scoring an entire film or scoring an entire movie.

You got to realize that's like hours and hours and hours of music for a game.

And then, you know, for the for the movie, you got, you know, whatever the running

time is two hours.

And I think about that and I go, wow, this this whole album was 32 minutes.

Or this whole album I made was 45 minutes.

Like, oh, that's nowhere near that amount of music that you'd have to to make.

And I think Ludwig Forssell was talking about with Destranding.

He was like, yeah, it was like over like eight or nine hours worth of music that I had to make.

And not all of it even went into the game.

And it's just like, dude, that's so much music that you have to stretch.

Like nine hours.

Think about that of like making something that lasts nine hours.

And they're all different.

And they're all different songs.

And it's like, so the even thinking about scoring something that huge is intimidating.

But I think there's there's another way to do music.

Kind of if you think about it like Katana Zero, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that game.

That game basically.

Zero. Yeah.

And shout out to Ludwig and shout out to Wic recordings that I've done an official

remix for that game.

That's out through Wic recordings.

But yeah.

And basically the way they did that game soundtrack is they're like, hey,

this guy Ludwig has some awesome music.


And like he made it like years ago.

And let's use that.

And then there's Bill Kiley over here.

Let's use his music that he made years ago that's not related to this at all

and just throw it in here as the stage music because it just kind of fits.

And I think that's more what I could see more for me happening.

Like my my albums are called VGM.

And it doesn't stand for video game music.

It stands for vague genre music because most video game music is like

if you call something video game music is like, what the hell does that mean?

You know, it's like this could be a ballad.

It could be techno.

I mean, if you look at Metal Gear, the genres go all over the place, you know?

It's surf rock.

It could little.

Yeah, Metal Gear has has a surf rock entry for sure.


So in a way, I feel like the video games are such a good entry for new music.

This I like most of the music I've come across this year has been through video

game, be it, you know, low roar, v.

Death Stranding.

I'd never heard of low roar before.


Now I know who that is.

I recently played Haven.

That soundtrack is amazing.

And I don't know.

It seems like there's more and more attention being put to sound design

and the development of soundtracks for video games.

And the stakes are a little bit higher.

Yeah, they're definitely starting to get like the licensing money and stuff

where they can like reach out to these things.

And now they're reaching out to the bands and the bands are going, hell,

yeah, we want to be in a video game where it was like it used to be like,

oh, video game.

No, I'm good.

The times are kind of shifting with like how like movies and TV,

it's like now video games are like the number one earning thing.

So it's like nobody goes to movies.

You know, it's like, I don't know.

It's definitely changing.

So yeah, I think I think more like licensing my tracks out.

Like I would love to, for some company to hit me up like, hey, we like this track.

We want to use in our game.


I've got I've got this album called PGM.

It was made for this for this use specifically.

That's that's what that series of music is.

It kind of, you know, I joke about it being big, John, or music,

but it is music designed to be put in video games.

Like that's kind of it's got those slow layers where it builds on top of each other.

And you've got like a big, you know, swell, and then it kind of calms back down.

And then it can be looped again.

And I think that's like what video game music has going for it is like you can

listen to it over and over and over and it not be annoying.

That's like the thing that you have to look out for with with writing music

for video games is like it's something that's normally catchy and you can sit

there and listen to it for 10 minutes while you have the game paused.


I don't know why, as soon as you said that, I'm going to take you for a ride.

Tomorrow, we're going to Capcom to just started blaring in my brain.

One of the best songs ever.

Oh my God, I would loop that Jesus Christ.

Jeremy, I'm going to come to you years from now and I'm going to knock on your

door and I'm going to say I have a feature in development.

I need you to score my feature film.

How long is it?

To put it in perspective, though, I did have a composer score three original songs

for a 15 minute short.

So yeah.

And that's like like short projects and stuff like that.

It's like, yeah, I could definitely do it.

I mean, I did score a video game a few years back called St.

Kofa and that was a really small indie game that two people were.

I'm sorry, it wasn't two people.

It was more than that.

But they were working on it.

The people that I knew were working on it as a university project.

And it's on

But let's see, that was back in 2016.

But it was basically five stages that I had to write for and then like a title

theme. And I was like, OK, this will be easy.

And then they kind of just gave me like, hey, this is going to be the planes.

And this is they gave me like art direction and like some concepts and stuff.

I was like, OK, so give me some like musical references that you, you know,

would maybe want to pair up with this.

And they're like, yeah, we're thinking like Zelda, Temple of Time vibes mixed with some like,

so they would kind of give me a direction.

And then I was like, OK, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

And then I would just go to work and then send them stuff and go, how about this?

And they go, a little too happy or a little bit, you know, whatever.

And then I would make adjustments and then we, you know,

pretty much just came to to the final product that way.

But yeah, that was a fun experience.

So like I'm definitely open to working and scoring stuff.

It's just like, yeah, when you talk about scoring a whole game by yourself,

it's like, that's a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So shout out to Lude Wake for getting down in those trenches.

I mean, yeah, his work on MGSV, I was listening to some of that today,

even just like driving around just that OK, the OKB zero and like angering mantis.

Like if you listen to those like those songs are nuts.

Like just they but they're not the ones that people really show around and talk about.

They're like, oh, Sins of the Father.

It's like, yeah, of course, great song.

But if you get into that real atmospheric, like gritty stuff where it's

it's not like melody, it's just all these like creepy textures and a

ticking clock in your left ear.

It's like, what the hell is going?

It's like, that is some really exciting stuff to listen to and to think about writing.

It's like, that's that scoring mindset where it's just like,

this is the music that's happening during some crazy scene.

And it's kind of in the background and it's really accentuating what's going on.

So, yeah, writing stuff like that, it's complex.

And you you literally have to write to the video of what's going on,

because you're hitting stabs and big things that are happening.

So I think scoring you're more like writing along to visuals that are already there.

I'm not I'm not exactly sure how they did it.

But it's, you know, all those things are happening and they're edited together.

When they hit, it's like this big orchestra swell and you're like, wow,

I'm feeling this tension.

Yeah, what a cool vehicle to deliver B sides to because those cassettes

being hidden throughout the world.

Like I mean, obviously, like when the the licensed stuff comes on,

it's like, OK, Joy Division, cool, aha, cool.

But whenever you get get those B sides kind of like demo stuff

or whatever stuff that didn't fit anywhere, like some of that stuff was like

super dope in MGS five.

Like greed.

And yeah, that's that's the it's a shame because it gets like slept on.

You know, it's like, ah, there's no one's really going to hear this really.

Yeah, I didn't go to Shaq number 13 in the back half of the African map.

So I missed I missed that tape.

I missed that banger.

It was back there.

Yeah. Yeah.

I wanted to ask before we kind of shift into metal gear territory

just because we're we're coming up on like the thirty thirty five,

thirty six minute mark.

So obviously, I want to kind of take us into the second half of this.

But before we dive into that, I wanted to ask, I mean, is there any other

like non MGS information that you wanted to touch on before we kind of take

things into like metal gear heavy territory for the remainder of the interview?

We'll do plugs and stuff later, I'm sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's that.

No, we're good enough about me and my music and.

Well, so you just mentioned you just mentioned sins of the father

and we had the pleasure of talking to both Stephanie Justin and Donna Burke

on this podcast before.

Shaq, Donna Burke.

Oh, yeah, Donna Burke is amazing.

Like she is great human, like even outside of her singing,

like I could like talk to her all day long.

She's amazing.

Yeah, she did a reaction thing with I did the official unofficial

movie remix thing with her last year.

And I got like I got like the runner up thing with that.

So she did she recorded a little reaction video and that was she was really nice.

So yeah, yeah.

And so I was going to I was going to ask me and having

remixed that hanging on a thread for the movie.

At any point, have you considered like reaching out to her

and actually doing like a collaborative thing, even if it's not

for like an official project or anything?

I have reached out to her and it's basically right now is kind of like

a busy time to try to like take on side stuff for her.

She's she's been she was doing this was months ago when I asked,

but it was right when she was starting up, you know, doing that tour and stuff.

And so I've reached out and we've I've talked to her management and stuff.

I've like proposed an idea of like doing a cover of Calling to the Night together

and like just having her just sing a part for, you know, for an arrangement that we would do.

We've we've like yanked her voice out of stuff before and put it in there,

you know, unofficially and she's commented on it.

But yeah, I mean, that might happen down the road.

You know, I think I think a lot of people are kind of stationary right now

and looking for stuff to do that the tours have slowed down.

So yeah, thanks for reminding me, actually, I need to.

I love it.

Well, so I just want to ask real quick, Jeremy, have you played peace walker?

I have played peace walker.

OK, so I just want to ask you one quick question.

Did you feel more emotion when you were killing the horse or the boss in MGS three?

I mean, that poor horse, you know, you got to you got to think about its family and stuff,

you know, I mean, the boss, I mean, you know, all right.

So this is a throwback.

I know exactly what you're referencing.

I didn't feel anything the first time I killed the boss because it was such an

onslaught of information that I still didn't even know she was like a good guy

at that point. I was like, what the hell's Eva's working for China?

What? Hold on. I got to. Oh, yeah.

Like I didn't realize the gravitas of that situation when it was happening,

while it was happening.

So like, yeah, I definitely like, but going back and now knowing everything that I do.

Yeah, of course, I'm not a monster.

Man, peace walker does have some emotional stuff going on in it, man.

Like a lot of people, a lot of people knock it, but I personally loved that scene

when big boss is like in there with the AI pond.

He's just like, tell me why?

Like he's just like, and that's the thing.

People are like, oh, man, his voice is ridiculous during that scene.

I'm like, dude, he's choked up and he's like begging a computer.

Why it took away, you know, it's just like, yeah, it's an emotional moment.

So like, I don't know.

I hate when people are like given voice actors a bad time and it's something

like that. I thought he nailed that part.

That was one part that I went, he still got it.

But then like I checked online and I was like, oh, that part's stupid.

I'm like, I hate online sometimes.

Yeah, I will say I feel like peace walker.

Dude, it's so weird because I remember I remember feeling like, OK,

MGS is done after four, right?

And then I remember picking a peace walker and thinking like, OK,

portable ops, whatever, it's just going to be some like guidance, fun thing, whatever.

Peace walker by the end of it, I was like, I love these characters.

Yeah. And when the trailer for five came out or ground zeroes came out

and it was like, oh, it's a direct continuation.

I got so stoked thinking like, pause is going to be there.

She's there. Chico is going to be there.

And we're going to talk to Amanda.

And then it's like, no, strange love is dead inside of a container offscreen.

And it was like, I think, I don't know.

I mean, I've come to peace with the fact that the things I like about V

are not the things that I thought I was going to like about it.

Yeah. But I really do wish in like an alternate reality

that there would have been like a like a peace walker story sequel.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

They ditched a bunch of characters, no, what you mean?

Yeah, it's like they just kind of rid them off.

And it's like, yeah, Chico, he had bolts in his ankles.

So, yeah, he didn't swim after that whole thing.

You know, we zoomed in on those bolts real hard.

So this whole Chico is quiet thing really didn't add enough too much.

But I don't know, maybe they scooped them up.

Crazy things have happened in middle gear.

For sure. For sure.

It is a shame that that concept art that they had for Chico

when he's got the hook and he's got the.

Oh, my God, that would have been great.

He just like pop up like some

Grey Fox character and be in and out.

You're like, what the hell was that?

You know, that that would have been a perfect inclusion.

But no, he did.

Between between that game and Hitman,

I still think to this day, how amazing would it be

if you're in the middle of a mission

and then you start getting hunted by someone you don't realize is hunting you?

Yeah, it would have been an amazing intro to Chico

where it's like, what the fuck is following me?

And then it turns out it's him.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, that would be awesome to have that as a separate game play.

But one game that did that great was the first Watch Dogs,

like just like infiltrating someone's thing.

And all of a sudden you were getting hacked and it was like, oh, no.

And then like you just you just had this like one on one thing

with somebody that they're trying to to, you know, just like outsmart you.

I actually have a clip of me online, like outsmarting somebody

by just hiding in the bushes like Metal Gear.

Like I had my wall.

I had like I did like a wall press against the bushes.

The guy didn't see me and I was wearing camo green pants.

And like I was just like crouched down and the guy ran right by.

I mean, I was like, see kids, this is why I need to play Metal Gear.

You learn life skills for other games.

I was a lot of like missed opportunities with MGSV,

but like I enjoyed the hell out of it.

And I played over 300 hours of it on like that first playthrough.

So it's just like I got plenty of game out of that game.

Totally. And it's like I can understand where people are wanting to see other things.

But it's like the story is done.

You can fill it in like, you know, man,

it's and went off somewhere.

And yeah, OK, cool.

You can you can fill in the dots from here and get to Metal Gear one.

Yeah. For me, that was like I was like, perfect.

The big mystery that they needed to solve was how the hell did big boss survive

a NATO air strike? Oh, he didn't. It was another guy. OK, cool.

I'm satisfied now because that was always by me. I'm like, wait, what?

Yeah, for sure.

Well, and I do feel like to some extent it would have been.

I think I don't know.

Maybe it was because of years and years and years and years and years of following

the series, but I think everybody just expected like a huge bombshell,

like it's over, like kind of a thing.

Yeah. And the way they advertised it, it was like, you're going to see him become

that bad guy that you all know. It's like, hi, he's a good guy.

So yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, as a musician,

surely the music of Metal Gear you've you've mentioned, you know, look like

four cell quite a few times already.

So can you talk to us about what kind of impact the Metal Gear series has had on you

as a musician and your feelings on the scores in these games?

I guess, do you have any favorite pieces or motifs or anything from

any of the Metal Gear games?

OK, yeah, definitely.

Love the love the stuff that they did in Metal Gear Shallot 2.

I love Twilight sniping.

That's like one of my favorite ones.

Let's see. The hashtag team MGS2.

Thank you. Damn right.

The way that they like mixed together like orchestral stuff with this like

hyper techno, like I love that.

That was such a cool like hybrid of music.

And I think jazz stuff too.

Yeah, fortune steam, baby.

Fortune steam.

Arms Depot is so good.

Arms Depot on all day long.

Just like you.

It's great.

In the middle of this episode, I'm just going to cut in the entire MGS2

soundtrack from top to bottom. Perfect.

It's a four hour claim. Here we come.

Yeah. And like, I think the the original Metal Gear soundtrack

is just like engraved in my head, you know, like just that

we were just talking about it the other day, like the the warhead.

The warhead storage music, you know, it's just got that baseline

that's just so simple and just sits there just that down, down, down, down, down.

You know, it's just it's just sitting there just like repeating for a while.

And then that choir comes in and you're like, all right, I'm sneaking around.

It's like that music played in two sections of the game

when you're in the tank hangar and when you're doing the warhead stuff.

So it's just like that that played a lot for me and like got really ingrained

in my head. Now, I love that slow, like build up, you know, it's just

you can tell that's sneaking music, you know, it's got that little side

little shuffle in the drums, kind of.

So I go back and forth between MGS2 and MGS1 as like favorite soundtracks

for me all the time, because MGS1 has got such good texture work, man.

Like all the little like twinkly sounds.

It's so good.

They use some I've like looked into it and I've tried to like get those sounds

into my computer and it's like it's some Roland thing that costs like

it's like two thousand dollars to buy it nowadays.

But it's like it was this little sound bank that, you know, you would then hook

up into a into a keyboard and it had all the textures loaded.

And yeah, they're they're very good.

And that's basically like what a lot of people call sound fonts, you know,

it's like that's kind of what it was for like back in the day with Super Nintendo.

But then when they came to PlayStation, they could kind of bring on these

like sampled sounds from other gear and load it on the disc

and then compress it to all hell.

But yeah, that sweet, sweet compression.

So I got to say, I love.

So I'll throw it out there.

The Metal Gear Solid 3, we had just recently done it.

But the like the reverb be like slap back, like real plucky guitar,

like almost like a little like James Bondi style.

Like for their for that caution music, it's so good.

Like what a what a great way to like put us in a time era

as well as emphasize that we're, you know, we're still in a Metal Gear game.

Like we're all here together. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I love that.

Dude, the fucking flute too.

Like I was about to bring up that flute when that flute hits.

It's like, oh, we're in a jungle, baby.

All right, so good, man.

So all right, did you have you come across any like other good

Metal Gear Solid samples in like other people's music?

Have you caught any? I haven't personally.

I just I'm kind of asking for reference.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're talking about in the notes, like, you know,

there's that burial one.

Dude, so good.

Yeah. And then like everybody else just samples a codec and it's like, OK, like.

So like so, so to answer that question, a hard no.

No one has really done it good.

Like no one has utilized Metal Gear Solid and the most recent one.

We were going to talk about this on the Kojima frequency,

but decided to just not because it wasn't that interesting.

Like recently, logic got David Hader, I guess, to do like a cameo or something.

I don't know. I mean, it sounds like it's a cameo.

I don't know.

But it's basically a recording of David Hader going logic.

You I don't even know what it says.

Like it's basically him doing a solid snake voice.

And he's like, do a mission logic.

And like it's like, cool, man, nailed it.

And to me, I was like, dude, that was lame as shit.

Like shots fired, I guess.

But I don't know. It's just to me, I was like, OK, cool.

Wait, it was like two on the nose.

You know, it was like it was a break in the song, a solid snake sample

that he hired him to do.

I guess, you know, it's like you can you can pay him 30 bucks

and they'll say a line or whatever. It's like, cool.

So I don't know. I really haven't seen anything.

And that's what I try to do.

I try to utilize the sounds.

And I did my most recent remix that I did was of the best is yet to come.

And when I first did that, it was an instrumental.

And then it turned into a full rap song with featuring Black Liquid.

He's a rap artist here from Richmond.


Yeah. So and the thing is, he was like a full full on Metal Gear Solid fan as well.

So like, if you listen to that song, he's throwing in references and lines.

And it's like, you know, I see the war has changed.

You know, it's all this stuff.

And I've got about six or seven different Metal Gear Solid samples in there,

like just scattered throughout. I have the Codex sound.

That's one of them. I have the item pick up sound.

I have the ration eating sound.


But I don't even know if people heard them, but it's like it's all part of it.

And it's like that's I'm trying to be the guy, I guess, that uses the samples

in a cool way. So because I haven't really heard it used in a creative way

other than someone throwing in a Codex sound and people go, oh, that's the Metal Gear thing.

Yeah. I still need to hear a track open with at the end of World War Two,

the world was split into two.

Unrelated rap song after that.

Yeah. It's like, cool.

Way to have a sample. I know how to record stuff, too.

Yeah, fucking crazy, man.


Does the does the same stuff sort of apply?

Like for have you found like some great stuff outside of Kojima games

like that that really sort of speak to you, you know, in reference to like

some of the albums you've released and things like that, do you have anything else

to like, you know, sort of catches your your ear?

I did mention it earlier, but I think like Hotline Miami, Katana Zero,

pretty much like anything like Devolver Digital has been putting out.

Like, I love that like retro take on stuff where they're just putting

in these like gnarly electronic tracks where you're just like, oh, man,

what is this? And then you're like looking up the artist.

That's yeah, Katana Zero, I think is like, man, I wish I could have scored that

or, you know, had some some of my music in there.

Hotline Miami, anything with that like cyberpunk

esque feel to it where it's like just that retro wave kind of outrun

kind of feel where it's like, this is 80s. Hell, yeah.

You know, it's like that's super aware, you know, like, I think I think that

kind of stuff is like what my music lends itself to, because I'm just like

emulating 80s textures, but bringing a modern contemporary kind of feel to it.

So it's like this nostalgic, fresh thing that's kind of like what I try to like

make it so it's not just chiptune. It's like, oh, this sounds like a Nintendo.

It's like, well, no, it's got modern drums and modern other synths on top of it, too.

So yeah, I think I think like leaning towards that, like a retro style game

where it's kind of using those 16 bit esque textures, but not like a full

chiptune soundtrack. That's kind of like what I would I kind of find myself in.

So weird in between.

I've never been able to really like classify my music that well.

Do you like the do you like the shovel night soundtrack?

Oh, shovel night was so good.

Yeah, it's so good.

That's a good example of like good chiptune where they're using, you know,

track or software and I guess it was like Nintendo chips.

There is I don't I'm really not into that side of stuff.

Like I tried when it when when I first started, it was just way too complicated.

It was like, you have to learn like hexadecimal just to program the notes.

And I was like, I just want to play it on my keyboard when I touch the button.

So yeah, I mean, like shout out to people that do chiptune.

It's tricky and it's its own it's its own thing, but I just didn't want to like

dedicate the time to learn that just for bloop bloop sounds when I can like

just emulate them in a plug in that sounds pretty similar.

But you're definitely getting the real deal with those tracker sounds.

And that's what that shovel night, you know, that full on like,

oh, this is coming out of a Nintendo entertainment system sound.

I don't like dislike it.

I just don't make it too much.

Right. I did a song called Allie Fight on my first album that was just like,

it was pretty chippy, you know, and that's probably like as chippy as I've gone.

That sounded like chipping in. Yeah, chipping in.

That's pretty much like, you know, just like an NES take.

The song was called Allie Fight.

So I was like, hey, this is like some double dragon, like whatever chiptune stuff.

We're just like, you fight and it's this happy chippy music.

So yeah, that's awesome.

I got to say fingers, if you have not the the game called The Messenger,

if that has crossed your paths at all, love it.

Love the Messenger.

Yeah, he just he does such a great job of emulating

like after hearing his process around, it's not just like,

I'm going to take the same eight bit track and I'm just going to, you know,

filter it through a 16 bit sort of emulation.

He actually, you know, had to retract all everything with the right triangle way.

You know, all the nerdy, you know, yeah, pusher glasses up, bullshit

that everybody cares about when you just listen to it with like, yeah,

that same stuff still applies in the synthesizers and everything I use.

You've got your square wave and your triangle wave.

It's just like that those chips like only had that one specific triangle wave

or that one specific square on that chip set.

So it's like, yeah, I've seen Rainbow Dragon eyes do some of his streams.

He's really talented and nailing that that retro sound without using trackers.

They're getting better at it too.

There's more and more plugins coming out that's just like,

these are the drums that they used on the Sega Genesis.

And you're like, that's that Sega Genesis sound.

Yeah, I've got a few of those.

I want to make more music like that.

It's fun. Farty, farty Genesis tracks.

Yeah, farty bass.

Keeping my eyes open for him.


Dude, just fucking to Jam and Earl shitting their pants.

Oh, my God.

Jam and Earl is one of the best fun soundtracks outside of video games.

Absolutely. Oh, my God.

100 percent that bass line.

It's pretty decent.

Pretty decent.

Well, I mean, so we talked about MGS

and how it had that like roll and sound.

So on the to Jam and Earl note is metal gear also retro or becoming retro?

I mean, are we just like some old dudes waxing nostalgic right now?

I think there was that division between like cartridge based games and disc based games.

That's kind of like where the line is for me.

It's like, here's where they're using chips and the things on the cartridge themselves.

And here's where we're like exporting songs over on the disc.

So I don't know. I don't know if MGS.

I guess MGS one is retro by now, but.

Not to my standard.

I I I draw that line to MG to Solid Snake.

That's how I'm like, that's a retro game.

Yeah, it's there's like there were levels of compression on PS one.

You couldn't just it was a great CD player.

But the the audio quality you can achieve in modern systems right now is

ridiculous, you know? Yeah.

So yeah, you do hear those like retro sounds from the PS one era.

And it's very haunting and chilling, like very synth heavy

because it was like two our ears at that time.

I think just like what like listening to something in 3D in a video game, you know?

Yeah. In hearing footsteps and like.

I think that's what made me look here solid.

So interesting was not just the music, but the sound design and all of like

the game being thought of from an oral way.

Yeah, Dualshock, dude.

I feel like all of it was like, dude, it's moving in my hand

and I can hear the footsteps on the wet pavement.

Like what the fuck? Yeah.

So I paid attention to like room acoustics a lot in that game.

And it was like when you were like walking on different surfaces,

like you heard, you know, you heard the cling, cling, cling, you know,

of the metal grate beneath your feet or like the splish splash

of that one little puddle in the beginning was like and the reverb of the room.

That was one thing that they did a great job of just creating atmosphere.

So yeah, we heard it, but the genome soldiers sure as fuck did not hear it.

I would say the combination between the menu, the menu music of that,

of Metal Gear Solid and the the, I guess, the integration that when you hear.

Psycho Mantis theme, that's him sort of taking over your mind as the player.

The combo of that because that opening theme, it's totally gets forgotten,

but it even has like when you hit the start button, it has like the gunshot

and it goes like that kind of stuff totally got me.

And for a PlayStation game where I was, you know, not playing like maybe

another game that maybe rivaled it as far as like focusing on noise

and music was like FAMFancy Seven at that point in my eyes.

I was playing like, yeah, not NHL 97 who didn't care about you know what I mean?

Like it didn't matter.

But like hearing that kind of stuff just made it like so special for me.

Where I was like, I can I can hear the experience.

It wasn't just like, oh, graphics make game good, you know, for a 13 year old

Warren at that time. Yeah, it really was like the first game, too.

Well, you said like with the DualShock, like I remember before that,

it was all in 64 Rumble Pack where it was just like like with everything you did.

But like feeling that like subtle variation of the elevator, it was like pumping

while you're going up. That was like the first moment.

I was like, wow, OK, we're doing something different with this.

And so, yeah, Metal Gear Solid, man, just like broke so many.

It just did so many things that other games hadn't done.

I mean, the Psycho Manus fight alone looked into your memory card,

probably violated some privacy.

I don't know. But like, you know, I love that game.

And that's when people ask me, like, what's my favorite?

I just got to go back to that one.

And I love all the other ones for different reasons, but like favorite

got to give it to MGS1. Sure. Yeah.

It's crazy. I mean, are we just super jaded?

Or is it real that we haven't seen a jump that far in a long time?

Because like I feel like other than the first time I tried VR two years ago,

I can't think of the last time I had like an oh fuck moment

with a video game in like a long time.

Yeah, we're getting that diminishing returns, approaching realism and stuff.

We're like, yep, still on Canny Valley.

Still, I mean, I will say, I think Death Stranding was the most recent one

as far as just the seeing the actors and stuff.

You know, they were all right, photo realistic or it was like,

yeah, that's Tommy Earl Jenkins.

Holy shit. Like there was no real like on Canny Valley going on there with that.

And I think I think Kojima is the guy that's going to be pushing us

in that next direction, artistically or visually or whatever.

He seems to be the guy that that does it, you know, and his teams, of course.

Of course, Kojima isn't doing all that.

But like whoever's working with him, it's like he's like, no, no, no, no.

We need to make this like future proof or like this needs to be a step

above what's going on.

You know, he like has a certain caliber that he wants his work to be seen

and normally delivers, you know, totally.

That's a good that's a good question, Alessio.

I guess I'm trying to think.

I feel like maybe like BioShock got me a little bit because I truly felt

like a unrealistic world was real based on the game.

But I don't I think that's giving the game credit maybe for like how it connected

with me. But like because Metal Gear Solid did it, but real but realism.

Like I really felt like I was like, oh, shit, I'm a spy.

Like, yeah, I'm doing espionage and shit.

You know what I mean?

I mean, the fact that we can still run into 40 year olds on the street

and say Solid Snake and they know where the fuck they were when they played MGS

one for the first time. I think says a lot demo. Yeah.


Like the fact that like people that I work with who never play games and they go,

oh, you used to be on a podcast, what's it about?

And I'm like, oh, Metal Gear.

Like the fact that they're like, oh, man, that PS1 game.

Whoa. Yeah.

Or it's worse when you're like, oh, the guy from Super Smash Brothers brawl.

Oh, no. No.

From Twin Snakes, flipping off of missiles.

Oh, yeah. Oh, Jesus.

Yeah. Well, so I do want I do want to ask Jeremy really, really quick,

total off book, very quick sidebar.

Because we were talking about it earlier where it's like, oh, what Metal Gears

have you played? Oh, I played this or whatever.

What do you think is the weirdest game in the series to be somebody's first game?

Because I'm still convinced that MGS two is the worst place for somebody to start.

OK, like not counting like spin offs.

So you're saying like, yeah, yeah, core.

Metal Gear Asset two. Just tell them it's a card game.

See if they come back.

Man, weirdest one in the canon series to start on and be confused as hell.

I think if you start on four, you're just going to go what?

Yeah, fair enough. Four is a good one.

Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't know.

Metal Gear and Nitroid has said he's he's known a guy that started with four

and he ended up being one of the most like well versed, well informed guys that he knew.

That, you know, because the guy like really dug in and like from that point was like,

OK, now I can fill in the dots where at the end that was kind of like the connection point

for all of us when we had all the dots, he went like the backwards way.

Yeah, it's it's Metal Gear is is definitely deep and complex,

but all the information is there.

So it's like no matter what order you play it in, you will eventually get it.

I do tell people to play and release order, usually

if for just references, gameplay nods, you're not going to you're not going to like

going back to playing PlayStation one or MSX after you just finished MGSV.

Like you're going to you're going to appreciate how everything gets smoother and smoother.

And by the time you you finish up, you know, the Phantom Pain,

you're like, man, I'm jumping and sliding around.

And then if you go back to like, yeah, if you go from the Phantom Pain to PlayStation one,

it's like, oh, this sucks.


Well, I guess on the note of that,

do you have any thoughts about the film?

Are you optimistic?

Have any idea of who should score it or who you would like to see score it?

Get Ludwig in there.

I think he'd be perfect, man, for the movie, to be honest.

I'd like to be featured, have a remix in there,

thrown in on the after credit scene or something.


Throw it out to the universe, make it happen.

But no, I think I'm optimistic on the movie.

I don't like thinking negatively about upcoming things and dissing artists

and, you know, as much shit as I talked on Logic earlier, whatever.

That was objectively bad.

But with with the visions and the stuff that we've seen from Jordan,

he's obviously a fan.

I think he wants to do something novel with it.

And I think that's what he should do.

I think just trying to tell a flat retelling of Metal Gear Solid One

without including anything else would be a mistake.

I think I would like to see pretty much Metal Gear Solid One.

Be, you know, that's a nice, you know, you got a couple boss fights.

You got a couple sneaking sections.

And then you have a couple of flashback scenes or whatever to explain

what happened in Snake Eater and what happened in Zanzibarland.

And that's really all you need.

Like, I think that's like a cohesive story where, you know, he could see Great Fox.

I'm like, oh, I remember you from Zanzibarland.

Quick two, three minute, you know, cut to that and then come back.

You know, I think if we do it like that, it could it could be a good, well contained movie.

And that's everybody saying, this story is impossible to tell in two hours.

No, not really.

I mean, it's there's a lot jammed in there.

But I think you can tell the story of a guy that goes into a place,

gets tricked by some people to do a thing that he didn't want to do.

And we can show how this has been going on for a long time

by just showing the cycle of that of big boss, his predicament.

And I think that's what Jordan's going to do, because he's definitely playing around

the timelines and all the all the art pieces were just for fun.

They weren't representative of what the movie is going to be, or at least that's what he said.

So we're not going to see Great Fox fighting a gecko from MGS4.

That's bonkers.

But I think he just wanted to see that artistically and get some people's

gears going like, OK, this this is what this world is.

And we could we could make this happen.

And I think what he did with Kong Skull Island,

he's, you know, he's good at directing action.

And those I still don't know what they're called.

I've on the first episode of the Kajima frequency, I called them those weird

invisible dinosaur things.

I still don't know what they're called, but they went invisible.

And I was like, if Great Fox did that same visual effect, that would look sweet in a movie.

And that was when I, you know, that was before the movie was even announced.

But he was kind of like claiming to say he was going to do it.

And Oscar Isaac, I think he's been given some bad lines to read from Disney.

So I'm not going to judge him on on the Star Wars, you know, sequel trilogy.

I think he I think he's a good actor and could probably nail it.

I'm optimistic and I like to, you know, like to just say, yeah, I hope it's good.

I'm going to see it.

Hopefully I enjoy it.

And if not, it's not, you know, it's not the end of the world, whatever, you know,

they've got a they've got a good foundation to build off of,

because literally all they have to do is watch Escape from New York and they're fine.

Yeah, that's pretty much the same.

But, you know, I think if Kojima's acting consultant, you know, and he's not on set

every day, it might turn, you know, turn out pretty good.

You know, I think if he's if he's modeling in it too much,

I don't know how he how he's going to do with movies.

We've talked about like when when Kojima is given a project or something

and they try to like maybe he works best and like restricted like, all right,

this is all you got to do.

And this is it.

But like, if you give him like, hey, man, go nuts, then we end up with death straining.

And it's like, all right, cool.

I enjoyed a lot of that.

But that whole beach scene with Amelie.

What the fuck?




And it's just like, I get you're doing your thing, but I didn't really enjoy that.

And if that wasn't a movie and I don't know, I just it.

I don't know if his game directing that he's very good at is going to transfer

over to good movie directing.

But I think I think Jordan's got a good eye for it.

He's obviously a fan, like I said.

So I'm being optimistic for it.

You know, I hope I hope it comes out.

And I hope it's great.

And I hope it lets more people know about Metal Gear Solid.

And that's kind of like, I love talking to new people about Metal Gear Solid,

introducing them to it and then seeing them get into it.

It's like, hell, yeah, yeah, Tony was good shit.

So like for me, I'm just like, yeah, bring it on.

Like, let's I want more Metal Gear games just because Kojima is gone.

I don't want them to stop making them.

I want more Metal Gear stuff.

It's way more than Kojima himself.

You know, there's a whole team still at Konami that still is passionate about the games.

And there's there's really just there's a lot of higher up.

Executives that are saying, yeah, cool idea.

No, you know, it's like they want to do these cool games that we've wanted to do.

And after Kojima left, they were like, well, yeah, let's we're playing around

this Fox engine. Yeah. Hey, you know, it works for this tower defense.

Let's throw this in.

It's going to be fun. Yeah.

And they put it out there as like a side, you know, just a spin off game

that wasn't supposed to be taken seriously.

And guess what? Everybody did.

They took it seriously.

Got mad about it.

And they were offended because it wasn't what they wanted.

But they also were saying they didn't want Konami to make Metal Gear Solid 6

without Kojima. So what the fuck do you want to do?

Yeah, that's that's like the Internet is just so like self-defeating.

But it's like, we want cyberpunk now.

Oh, here it is. It sucks.

Oh, no. I shot myself in the foot.

Put it back in the oven.

Quick, quick, quick. Yeah.

So I think we need to let creators kind of do their thing and top stop telling them

what to do and being so entitled of like what our expectations are

and just let people create, you know?

I mean, I think I think if we shut up and let Jordan do his thing

and there's not all these people in his ear, I think he can crank out something good.


So what you're saying is we need to learn to let go.

As Metal Gear fans.

That's like people play these games and they do not absorb the lessons, man.

It's like, are you paying attention back there?

Yeah. Yeah. 100 percent.

Well, yeah, I think the one thing with like, look,

everybody wants a new Metal Gear game, I think in our hearts, right?

And we can pick on survive in a sense.

But I got to say, survive look good.

I think the big thing and you I think you recently brought it up on

on one of your Kojima frequency pods was I think the main thing

that I want them to create Metal Gear for us, because I think the Fox engine

is eventually just going to become irrelevant and just for it already has, man.

Yeah, right? Like, yeah.

I want them to use it so that they are forced to update it.

And it's it's lower cost to keep it going because for that, what,

three years that it was sort of was like up top.

It did sort of top other, you know, yeah, unity is like the big one, right?

You know, unreal.

And it's just Fox has a real chance.

But if they don't do anything with it other than MGS3 cut scenes for Pajinko.

They're doing PES.

They're doing PES.

I think they stopped doing that, too.

I mean, that's the thing like Fox.

No, like they stopped using that for the they're using unreal for that now.

Yeah, it's like it is kind of an antiquated, unupdated system

that they've made they've made better shit in five years.

Like, but yeah, it's a shame that that that got underutilized

because I love the feel of that engine.

Like it's survive and MGSV.

Both games that came in that were just like, oh, man.

It's so good.

Pt. Yeah. Yeah. Pt.

Look good. Yeah, it did.

Well, cool. So, Jeremy, just to close this off.

I wanted to read off a listener question.

Unfortunately, when we put together our like call,

we forgot to allow people to say who the hell they were.

So anonymous listener number.

I don't know. One nine seven five says,

one of your remixing Metal Gear music or putting together a longer form set.

Are the are there specific influential traits that you find yourself going back to?

Or is it mostly a what sounds cool in the moment thing?

Side note, I'm a big fan of your stuff.

I listen to Kojima frequency every time it comes out.

Great show. Hey, thanks.

I appreciate that, buddy.

So as far as sets go, I think he's talking about like DJ sets

and like throwing together a set.

Yeah, that's that's its own thing, too.

It's definitely you kind of want to have a roller coaster ride for that's

kind of like what I try to do.

It's like you have you have some uptime where it's like, all right, cool.

We're dancing. All right, let's take a break.

Like let's let's chill it back down for a minute.

And then you want to like get back in there and surprise them.

But you don't want to be jarring like to where it's like, oh, God, what?

We're doing this now. OK.

So I think normally when I do DJ sets, I'll sort all my stuff by BPM

and just slowly work my way up.

And so it's kind of like you I'll start kind of like the slower jams and work my way up.

But then I'll have another song in there that's like half time of what it is.

So like it'll be like a 140 BPM track and then like a 70 BPM track.

So you'll get that that that half time break of like, oh, OK, we're chilling now.

But we're still working our way up the BPM because the next song is going to go

cut time, which is twice as fast.

So it's like that's kind of my process when I'm doing that, as I try to not just

have like banger, banger, banger, banger.

You know, you got to have a little rest in between and then hit them back with the

bangers again. But yeah.

I wanted to I wanted to ask you, I mean, so other than fingers,,

which again, fingers is got a one and a three instead of an I and an E.

And that rhymes.

Where where do you typically send people as far as like promoting your work?

Yeah, I'm on YouTube, slash fingers music.

A lot of my social stuff, it's it's spelled the same way as F1, NG, 3 RS music.

Just so that's all like one word.

Twitter, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, all at fingers music.

But if you just Google fingers, that'll pretty much pull you up anywhere.

Got. I also have a Patreon, slash fingers.

Everybody gets like free downloads as I release them.

They can get stems and like individual parts where you're getting like just the

drums or just the bass, if you want, you know, and mess around with it yourself.

Make your own remixes.

Yeah, I'm on Twitch every once in a while, not too much.

Yeah. Pretty much any social media site.

If you type in fingers, you'll find me.

That's awesome. And 100 percent, like and we've always been pretty,

pretty gung-ho about waving the flag for any and all MGS content.

But like Kojima frequency, 100 percent, go subscribe.

Everybody go check out that podcast.

Can't plug you guys enough.

And I don't know, it's it's it's been interesting to see how everything

shakes out over the years, because I think after the first few months of us

starting back in 2015, there were a few shows that popped up.

I think it was like Foxcast, one other one other podcast.

And it's so weird to see like every few years, something will pop up for a few

weeks or a couple of months and then just kind of completely disappear again.

Yeah, with social media, you can kind of I get why people give up so easily,

because it's like I'm putting it out there up or not making views up.

It's not. Oh, OK.

And then like people just get like I've been releasing music for over 10 years.

So it's like I am way outside of that mentality of like, oh, no,

people didn't like immediately.

That must mean that I suck or that must be.

It's like it's getting so hard to get stuff out past the algorithm now.

So if you include a link, if you include a tag, if you include,

if you say the wrong word or if they detect something in your picture,

they're going to nerf the reach of your post.

So it's it's really hard to get content out.

And if you don't know that, then it's like it just seems like like like

self reflection on the product and a lot of people just give up.


Well, you also have to build a catalog too, because I mean, one of the things

we learned from doing this show is like people are interested in different things.

So like they may come for Death Stranding and stick around for everything else.

They might come for an interview with fingers and stick around for everything else.

Like you never know, you know, came for the fiddles, stayed for the podcast.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it. Well, cool, man.

No, thank you so much.

I don't know.

Anything else that you want to plug feel free, but

bearing anything, barring anything else, I think that that's it.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it on the plugs.

Yeah, just check out my music and download it.

And if you support, you know, if you want to support it, you can buy it.

You can stream it.

I've also got my music on pretzel.rox.

If you're a streamer out there and you're getting DMCA claims and you don't like it,

you can get pretzel.rox.

And that's like a it's pretty much like stream safe music.

So it's like, I've put my music into their catalog.

You use pretzel and they, you know, it kind of like integrates into your stream.

You've got background music.

It shows who's playing and what the song title is and links where to buy it.

And then we get paid every time people use it.

So if you want to support artists pretzel.rox is a good way to do it.

I learned something new today.

That's actually a really good service you guys should check out.

That's awesome. Awesome.

Well, cool. All our plugs are at the at the front of the intro of the show.

So you guys know what to do.

And yeah, thanks again, Fingers Music, everybody.

Hell yeah, Talking Metal Gear music, hopefully not for the last time.

So yeah.

Thank you guys again so much.