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Here's to your dear listeners and welcome back to another episode of Metal Gear Monday's

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Revengeance where you'll find some of your favorite conversations around Metal Gear and

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Kojima related content delivered to you through tactical podcast action.

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So today's a special episode.

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We have done some interviews and when I say we, I just want to bring up a few people with

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me.

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The first people are Alessio Somerfield.

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What's up man?

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Hey.

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And the other for today's interview, Mr. Chris Hampton.

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How we doing?

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Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

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Full of energy today.

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So today's interview is with the, I guess we could call it the musician, the composer,

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Fingers, who is sort of known in the Metal Gear verse with his remixes and some of his

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other stuff, which he gladly goes into sort of his history.

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Do you guys have fun with this conversation?

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Oh, noted wordsmith and very, very fun man to talk to.

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Fingers was a real treat.

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Yes.

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I'm trying to think of a joke, something to say about Fingers and strumming my pain.

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He was.

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He was strumming my pain with his fingers.

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He killed me softly with this podcast.

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Oh my God.

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I love the journey we just went on with you there, Alessio.

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Thank you.

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I'm trying to prodigit this person.

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Hey.

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Wow.

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I was feeling real good about this guys.

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I'm going to be honest.

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And I just killed that for you, didn't I?

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I love it.

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Nah, it's great.

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But yeah, so please feel free to listen through.

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Fingers is an awesome guy.

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We make sure he sort of has, you know, his Twitch, his YouTube, his music, follow him

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on Facebook.

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We make sure to, you know, we give him all the time in the world to plug because he's

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a pretty rad dude.

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For us, you can find this at Metal Gear Mondays.com.

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You can find us on any of the audio platforms.

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It will be dropped on YouTube as well, if that's where you're hearing it.

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Hi, YouTube.

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Otherwise, Alessio, where can they find you?

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I also just want to say, hey YouTube, how's the weather?

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You can find me at AC Summerfield pretty much everywhere or alessiosummerfield.com for

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everything, very easily found in one place as opposed to across many.

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And yeah, no, Fingers is dope.

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I've been following him on Bandcamp for a long time, so you can go to FingersMusicTopBandcamp.com.

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I believe that's correct.

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He says it as well.

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But it's F1NG3RS music at most places.

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But yes.

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Where can they find you on the internet, my man?

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Oh, you can't find me on the internet.

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You can find me on the Discord.

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You can find me on middleyearmondays.com in the bio section.

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You can find me on this podcast.

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Chris's hesitance was Chris literally hiding the last vestige of his identity from the

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internet during that question.

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Yeah, I just deleted my Facebook right now.

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So.

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Yeah, his finger was hovering over the enter key as he was paying off somebody to wipe

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him from the internet.

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I delivered my own nuclear payload into my online identity.

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Super quick aside, I just need you guys to know I Googled myself trying to find my own

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address on the internet and found it on the third page of Google and scared the shit

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out of myself earlier today.

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So that's a thing.

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Oh yeah.

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I mean, I guess it's hard.

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I want you to own land or something along those lines.

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It's tough to sort of keep that at bay.

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Yeah.

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As soon as the credit scores start floating.

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I want you guys to go to chrishampton.com.

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Right now?

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Yeah.

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That's where you can find me on the internet chrishampton.com.

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100 percent.

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This is the greatest website I've ever been to.

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And I'm assuming you have nothing to do with this, Chris?

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Oh, I have nothing.

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I have nothing.

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I did not.

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This is not me.

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Chris is going to be replaced on most appearances across the internet with just the contents

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of this website moving forward.

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Beautiful.

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I'm so proud of you, Chris.

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I really am.

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Cherish the sound of his voice because it's literally just a JPEG on a website.

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It's amazing.

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It does make sure you know he's in Georgia though.

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So we got that going for us.

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Chris, this could be you in like an alternate future, I think.

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It could be, yeah.

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At the Casa Blanca poster.

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100 percent.

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That's my favorite.

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Stratocaster.

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That and the fucking, what is it called?

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The, that game.

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He's got a game board in the background.

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What is that thing where you sweep the pucks across the sandy little shuffleboard thing

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at the bar?

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The shuffleboard, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There we go.

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He's playing at a bar, clearly.

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We can, we'll send this to noted mod and good friend Chad who runs the Discord.

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We'll send this to him and I guarantee you he can tell you exactly where this photo was

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taken in like an hour and a half.

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He has so many like means of cross referencing and data gathering.

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So spooky.

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Well you can find me on the internet, Warren Minix.

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I don't really have any shame as far as if you guys want to find me.

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I really suck with social media.

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However, if you're into gamer tags, I'm untaggable gamer.

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You can get us a Patreon, Metal Gear Mondays and you can go to Metal Gear Mondays.com and

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I believe we have some sweet merch you can grab from that website as well as some other

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stuff there.

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So thank you guys again and without further ado, an interview with Fingers.

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All right.

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Well, thanks for joining us Fingers.

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How's everything going this evening?

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I'm doing pretty good, man.

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I'm feeling pretty good.

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Just got a new track out today.

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It's one of those like hectic promo days, you know, it goes.

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I like it.

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I like it.

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Was the, so I, before we get, before we dive in proper, was the description, the style

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and the title.

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Are these all references to the jankiness of Cyberpunk 2077?

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They weren't actually, but it's kind of funny how it like all kind of just like came together

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with that.

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Like we were talking about like themes and everything.

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I was like, I was like, yeah, like if you look up the definition, it's like jank is like,

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you know, like bad quality.

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And then like junk can be like anything like it can be used for narcotics or just like

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a substitute word like, Hey man, hand me that junk.

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And it's just like, okay, cool.

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So with, with jank junk, it was kind of like this word that didn't mean anything, but it

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was like bad quality, anything, you know, so that's, it's a nonsense word pretty much.

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It didn't really have anything to do with Cyberpunk, but the fact that Cyberpunk did

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come out in such a janky state, you know, I might pair it up with Cyberpunk, you know,

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just for some visuals later down the road.

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Nice.

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Nice.

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Cyberpunk, man.

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I was, I was looking forward to that, but I can't say that I'm super happy with it,

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but I can't say that it's like unplayable, you know, I'm like, yeah, I mean, if we would

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have given it more time, we, we probably would have had a better game, but we had to rush

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it out and send death threats.

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You dumb ass.

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Yeah.

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Oh my God.

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Thanks for Christmas sales CDPR higher ups.

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I bought a new Xbox for this game.

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Yeah.

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And it looks better, but there's just like some stuff you can't even finish, you know.

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Yeah.

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I mean, PC is the way to go apparently, but it's like, and I'm playing it on a base PS4.

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I rented it from Gamefly.

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So I'm kind of like, okay.

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And like, I see the problems, but it's still not as bad as the online community is saying

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it.

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And that's a big problem, I think with, with the Metal Gear community too, they like to

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like blow stuff way out of proportion.

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And then when people hear the news about it, they're like, Oh, I'm not going to touch that

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game because XYZ.

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And it's like, yeah, but it's really PDQ.

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You know, it's like, it's not really those things.

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It's really just this kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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I feel like I'm in a weird place because I literally got done logging my 64th hour in

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cyber funk before we, before we jumped on this podcast, but I am playing on PC.

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So fair enough.

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Yeah.

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There's a good game underneath all that stuff.

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Like I can tell there's some, there's like, I like the quest lines.

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Some of the characters are pretty cool.

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Like the gunplay and the customizable, you know, customize ability is all there, but

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it's like, they just had to rush it and here we are.

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Yeah.

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It's a pretty good Dosex game.

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I will say that.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's like System Shock, something like that.

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It's a beautiful game and I'm having a blast with it.

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There's just, I've hit points in the game on the console where I can't finish certain

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quests because they bug out.

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So I'm just going to piece out, I think, from it for a month or so.

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Yeah.

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Give it some time.

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Exactly.

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It's just some JangChunk.

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I'll play some Shades of the Moon.

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It's fine.

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Yeah, man.

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I took the High Road.

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I am, I, you know, we talked about it in our discord and all that, but I was like,

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guys, I think I'm, I think I'm going to take the, the couple month hiatus.

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I'm going to play some other games.

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Yeah, man.

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There's this weird, like societal thing right now where it's like games are hot

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for like a couple of weeks, a month maximum.

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And then it's like, you're still playing that.

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And it's like, man, what happened to games with like longevity and like staying

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power?

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You really don't have that unless it's a games as a service type game.

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And yeah, it's really weird how that time area has just gotten like much,

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much shorter.

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It's like people's attention spans are like, all right, what's next?

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Like we beat that last week.

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What are you talking about?

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Yeah.

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In a weird way.

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And I think I've talked about this a few times in our discord, but like in a weird

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way, I feel like it has been way easier to pay complete and total attention to

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like VR games than it has normal games.

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Cause you literally can't not look at the thing.

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You know what I mean?

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That's a good point.

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Yeah.

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It's like cut scenes.

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I'm like, all right, cool cut scene.

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Time to look at Twitter.

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And it's like, oh, I missed the story.

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Yeah.

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So it's been like a weird, I don't know.

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And in general, it's been bizarre.

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And I think, uh, I don't know, man, it feels like the past 11 months, it's

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been like a new console, a new game, a new thing.

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And like, and then there's this, and then there's this.

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And I was looking at my backlog and I'm like, dude, I haven't even touched

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like 30 games from 2019.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Like what am I doing right now?

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Buying all the new stuff as it comes out on day one.

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Yeah.

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100%.

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Um, so getting into, uh, uh, today's episode proper, I wanted to ask, um, so I

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mean, all of us know you from your presence on Twitter, your band camp.

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You've been pretty much, I don't, as far as I'm concerned, I feel like you might

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be like the Metal Gear Solid community, like fan community, like musician guy

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that like I've just always known exists on the internet.

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Um, but how do you introduce yourself to somebody like your mother's friend?

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How do you intro what you do?

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Well, I normally don't bring up the Metal Gear stuff first and foremost.

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Uh, I, I like, I am an electronic musician.

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Uh, I, I make music that's original.

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I make music that's covers of video games.

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Uh, I do remixes.

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Uh, and I, I do, I do also DJ my sets and my music when I'm out, but I don't

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necessarily call myself a DJ.

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I'm a person that DJs.

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Um, so yeah, it's, it's mainly like, uh, an electronic music producer is like my

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title, I guess you would say.

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And then the whole Metal Gear side of it, like, I think it was seven years ago, I

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started, uh, being admin on this page called Solid Snake.

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And that was on Facebook and that's, uh, slash solid snake, Lolls, L, U, L, Z.

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And back then it was kind of just like, uh, one of those like mixed meme pages

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where it was like, there was hundreds of them on Facebook back in the day.

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I was just like, post whatever people like it and they share it, whatever.

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But yeah, it was named Solid Snake and like they were posting a lot of good

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Metal Gear content, but also all this other stuff.

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And I was like, man, and I got kind of cool with the admins and stuff.

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And basically I got to become one of the admins after a while.

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And I was like, Hey, what if we shifted this to like just Metal Gear?

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We cut out all the random memes that aren't related and we switched it over to

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that. And they were like, actually, that's a great idea.

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Like if we stick to just that, it'll be our core audience.

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And that was back when it was like, it had like 15,000 likes on it at that point.

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And so I, and like over the course of like two or three years, we got it up to

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over a hundred thousand people on there.

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And it just got to be this huge meme community where it was just like, that

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was what we were. You know, I guess we were like the biggest

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unofficial Metal Gear page on Facebook besides like Metal Gear Solid,

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like by Konami and stuff. So that's crazy. Congratulations.

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Thanks, man. Yeah.

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And so like as as an admin there, you're constantly posting artwork.

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You're constantly posting, you know, people's videos that were out.

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And for me, I was like, all right, I can make memes.

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I know how to Photoshop, but I also can make remixes.

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So I would take a lot of the Metal Gear songs.

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And what most people know me as is the guy that made the damn fiddle remix.

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It's like, yeah, I made the they played us like a damn fiddle remix.

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And that that's like my most popular thing.

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That's my Harlem Shake, the thing that I'm not super proud of, but follows me everywhere.

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But yeah, so that's kind of like my, I guess my name got out there is from people

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looking at that remix and going, oh, fingers, it's spelled with a one and a three.

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OK, and that just kind of stuck in their brain.

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So whenever they see me in the Metal Gear community outside of that, they go,

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oh, you're the fiddle guy.

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And I'm like, yep, that's me.

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And so like I get comments every day there, you know, in that comment or sorry,

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the remix is of, you know, cause, of course, when he says they played us like a damn fiddle,

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but it has samples in there when he's when he says, you spy, bitch.

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And so I took that one little bitch and like that's like the the chant and the song

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is he's just going, bitch, bitch.

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And then I also sampled it when a lot said it in MGS three.

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I did take that one too and threw it in there.

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So there would be like alternating ones.

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Yeah. Yeah. So I just get I'll get like comments all the all the time

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where it's just like, bitch.

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And I'm like, hey, oh, OK, it's about that.

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It's like Dave Chappelle at Walt Disney World.

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Yeah. I'm Rick James.

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Yeah. So you just hear in that being shouted at you or in your comments.

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And it's like, OK, it's these people. Cool.

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Metal Gear is the fan.

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What's the what's the worst thing that you've ever had to?

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This might be a little loaded.

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What's the worst thing that you've ever had to moderate or admin away from existence

[00:14:38]
on that Facebook page?

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Oh, man.

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If you can talk about it.

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Yeah. I mean, people get real nasty in comments, man.

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And it's like as soon as they start going like it's like you can kind of like

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insult each other, like, I'll let that happen.

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You know, they're like, oh, shut up, dumbass.

[00:14:53]
And it's like, all right, cool.

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But it's like any any of the any time to get racist, I'm like, you're out of here.

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Any time they're like homophobic, really, I'm like, you're out of here.

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It's like I'm just not going to like tolerate that really.

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You know, I'm not I'm not about that.

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For sure. I live in Virginia and it's kind of like.

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That state when it comes to like confederacy and all this like the real

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racism stuff. So like any time I see people like really just like even like

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playing at it, I'm like, nah, man, you can't be doing that here.

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You know, that's that's not what we're about here.

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So that's that's the kind of stuff that I really try to just knock out as soon as I see it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Other than Warren's Yankee ass, I think me and me and Chris have spent a long time

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living down south to amplify that type of stuff.

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There's plenty of it out there.

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The worst I get is John when I call things John.

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That and pop.

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Yeah, then you'll get like people like kind of like obsessed on something.

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They'll start like looking you up and looking up details and stuff.

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And it's like, man, why are you why are you doing all this?

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And that those people can get kind of scary and you just got like block them

[00:15:57]
and they make another account and it's like, OK, I can do this all day, man.

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So yeah. Yeah. Oh, geez.

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So that, I mean, all started sounds like seven ish years ago.

[00:16:08]
When when were you when would you say that you were like bitten by the metal gear bug?

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I mean, was it with the PS one game like like most people or was it?

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Yeah, it was definitely earlier than that.

[00:16:19]
But like it wasn't a hard bite at first.

[00:16:21]
It was kind of like a nibble at first.

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It was I played the NES game when I was a kid.

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I had older brothers that were like six and seven years older than me.

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And they had all the games that, you know, were coming out.

[00:16:31]
And I remember playing metal gear as a kid and going, Oh, my God, this is hard as shit.

[00:16:35]
How do I get past this first little section and never really went back to it?

[00:16:39]
But then my cousin came to me later and it was in 1998.

[00:16:42]
Yeah. And said, Hey, man, there's remember that game, metal gear.

[00:16:45]
They're making a new one called Metal Gear Solid.

[00:16:47]
And I was like, well, that sounds dumb.

[00:16:49]
But just based off the title, like I was like, cool, great naming convention.

[00:16:55]
But then I later played it on the demo desk.

[00:16:58]
And that first time where the guards saw the footsteps

[00:17:02]
and started looking after me, I was like, Oh, this is some new shit.

[00:17:06]
Like this is this is next level.

[00:17:08]
And I think that is the moment where I was like, yo, OK, this like really got me into it.

[00:17:13]
And anybody that pretends like they knew about the MSX versions

[00:17:16]
before the HD collection or the internet, shut up.

[00:17:21]
That's like we grew up on Metal Gear and Snakes Revenge.

[00:17:23]
And then we had the PlayStation.

[00:17:25]
And then we learned about the MSX stuff like way later down the road, you know,

[00:17:28]
right? And then we all pretended like like we know about it.

[00:17:31]
I'll still I'll still cling to my hipster subsistence disc

[00:17:34]
because that that had those on there. Exactly.

[00:17:36]
Yeah. Yeah. It was like any once they started

[00:17:39]
rereleasing them over here, it's like, OK, now we can talk about it,

[00:17:41]
particularly like we know about it.

[00:17:42]
But like no one really knew about the Japanese versions in my immediate circle at all.

[00:17:47]
So it was for sure.

[00:17:48]
That was definitely like when he was referencing Zanzibar Land,

[00:17:51]
you're like reading through the book, like, when did this shit happen?

[00:17:54]
Like, yeah, this is.

[00:17:55]
So I think that curiosity of like trying to complete that

[00:17:58]
like kind of got me thinking about it a lot more.

[00:18:01]
And then when MGS 2 came out, I was like, here we go.

[00:18:04]
And that I like we got that immediately.

[00:18:06]
And me and a buddy played that like the first night it came out

[00:18:08]
and just set up all night and just got through it.

[00:18:12]
Yeah, but it really bit us hard.

[00:18:14]
And we were we thought we were kind of like tripping out at the end, you know,

[00:18:16]
because it was like four in the morning and like kernels freaking out, doing his

[00:18:19]
AI stuff or like, are we supposed to turn the console?

[00:18:22]
Keep it on. Keep it on.

[00:18:24]
Do not. Why would you turn it off?

[00:18:26]
That's amazing. Yeah, it definitely bit hard around that.

[00:18:28]
Like and I was in high school around that time in MGS 2.

[00:18:31]
So it was like eighth or ninth grade.

[00:18:34]
Yeah, when that came out. So.

[00:18:36]
Nice. Yeah, I 100 percent.

[00:18:40]
I think we're in the same exact age pocket

[00:18:43]
because it was the exact same year for me.

[00:18:45]
Yeah, I was born in 87.

[00:18:46]
So that's 11 years old when Middle Gear Solid came out.

[00:18:49]
So that's yeah, that's quite the impressionable age of like,

[00:18:52]
wow, this is going to this is going to really change my life and worldview on things.

[00:18:56]
Yeah, this is super sick.

[00:18:58]
Yeah. And I often I often think because of that Zanzibar land stuff early on

[00:19:01]
in the Frank Yeager, Gray Fox, where you're like, who the fuck are these people?

[00:19:05]
Even big big boss, like hearing big boss and seeing big boss in the instruction

[00:19:09]
manual, but never actually seeing him in the game.

[00:19:12]
It's like, I feel like those things made it better.

[00:19:16]
And I do wonder if there's like a diminishing returns with the series

[00:19:19]
as it tried to make that stuff materialize more and more.

[00:19:25]
Yeah. But anyway, before I fall into a hole, yeah.

[00:19:31]
I wanted to ask, I mean, so how do you go from solid snake

[00:19:35]
lulls on Facebook to Kojima, the Kojima Productions Network

[00:19:39]
with Ryan and Chelsea and everybody?

[00:19:42]
So like, could you kind of bridge the gap into like modern day?

[00:19:45]
Yeah, I guess, I mean, it's funny.

[00:19:49]
Ryan, AKA Nitroid, he basically was like a fan of the solid snake page

[00:19:55]
and was just like a person that would comment on there.

[00:19:57]
Little did I know he used to run Metal Gear Solid, the unofficial site

[00:20:01]
and was an ad like so he's like in the old school crew of like the people

[00:20:04]
that I used to go on his website and look around.

[00:20:06]
And so it was this full circle thing of like, oh, yeah, we've been in the

[00:20:09]
community for a while and we got along like perfectly.

[00:20:12]
We're like, OK, cool.

[00:20:14]
And as far as days goes, I met her through Tumblr and that was actually

[00:20:18]
through the fiddle remix.

[00:20:19]
She was she had reblogged that.

[00:20:22]
And I was like promoting a concert that I was playing that night.

[00:20:26]
I was like, hey, I'm DJing the night at this club.

[00:20:27]
And she's like, oh, you live in the same state I do.

[00:20:29]
Word. And I was like, yeah, you should come out.

[00:20:31]
And she came out and we met and oh, wow.

[00:20:33]
You know, it was just, you know, a cool friendly meetup.

[00:20:35]
And and then like over the past couple of years, I've been, you know,

[00:20:39]
with all the podcasting boom, I was like, man, I'd love to do a Metal Gear podcast

[00:20:43]
because this is something I can talk about all day, every week.

[00:20:46]
It doesn't matter.

[00:20:47]
You know, it's just something that I have that much information on

[00:20:49]
that I can talk about it enough.

[00:20:51]
And I think like podcasting is like it's like breaking bad.

[00:20:56]
You know, it's all about chemistry.

[00:20:57]
And I was looking for people to do it with and we tried out a bunch of different people.

[00:21:02]
And I was like, I don't know about these.

[00:21:04]
They're all that didn't work out that great.

[00:21:06]
But when we when we first got the group together, it was four of us.

[00:21:10]
And we had like like Ninja Turtles level chemistry.

[00:21:14]
It was like we like, yeah, it was perfect.

[00:21:16]
Like Nitrode was Leo.

[00:21:18]
I was like the goofy Mikey.

[00:21:20]
Days was like the analytical Donatello.

[00:21:22]
And then we had Vector, who was just like this angry guy that would like

[00:21:26]
contradict whatever we would say would be like, we're excited.

[00:21:29]
He'd be like, fuck your excitement.

[00:21:31]
But here's the reason why.

[00:21:33]
And that's he wasn't just like, you know, that's not to talk any kind of shit

[00:21:36]
towards right. He's not just like a blind hater.

[00:21:38]
It's like this sucks.

[00:21:39]
He's got very good taste and very good like expectations for stuff.

[00:21:43]
And he'll tell you why something should have gone one way or the writing error.

[00:21:47]
You know, like when you have somebody that's into movies and film on that level,

[00:21:50]
it can get, you know, your expectations get a little higher.

[00:21:54]
And then for me, I'm just kind of like carefree, like whatever I enjoyed,

[00:21:57]
survive, you know, I have fun with whatever it's all good.

[00:22:01]
So, you know, you breezed right through that.

[00:22:04]
I appreciate the confidence in what you delivered that line.

[00:22:07]
Yeah. So, you know, it's basically just like we had a good chemistry.

[00:22:11]
And, you know, I think that that finally hit.

[00:22:15]
That was at the beginning of this year.

[00:22:16]
And we started kind of doing some test recordings and trying to figure out

[00:22:20]
the format and stuff in like early January of this year.

[00:22:23]
And we basically, I told him, I was like, let's record a few episodes

[00:22:26]
and keep them in the bank.

[00:22:27]
And then that way, when we start rolling them out, we've got kind of like a backlog.

[00:22:31]
And if we if we can't record that week, we've got like this little bank here.

[00:22:35]
And so that's got we started like releasing them in like June of this year.

[00:22:39]
You know, and that's we've just been slowly cranking them out.

[00:22:41]
We're on episode 25 right now on the Kajima frequency.

[00:22:45]
And we've got we got a nice little holiday break situated right now.

[00:22:50]
So we're taking like two weeks off and then we're going to be hitting it back again in 2021.

[00:22:53]
So nice.

[00:22:54]
And thus began the great podcast Cold War.

[00:22:59]
So the real question is, which one of us is zero and which one of us is big boss?

[00:23:03]
But I don't know.

[00:23:03]
You get. Yeah, I think you guys came first.

[00:23:05]
So I think you get the zero title on that.

[00:23:07]
Oh, no.

[00:23:09]
That means nitroids going to cut our oxygen tanks off in our wheelchair.

[00:23:13]
Pretty much. God damn it.

[00:23:15]
Oh, no, then I have to fight nitroids.

[00:23:16]
Shit.

[00:23:18]
So so fingers, you had brought up.

[00:23:21]
So again, the bug sort of bit you like that early on.

[00:23:24]
Metal Metal Gear solid in a word.

[00:23:27]
Were you like the only person or like you maybe had like a couple of friends

[00:23:30]
like growing up with Metal Gear, where you like the person that sort of like

[00:23:34]
made Metal Gear like niche, in a sense.

[00:23:38]
And did like the music tie to that at all?

[00:23:40]
Or was it just more like this this game's dope?

[00:23:43]
I think like when it when it first came out, it was I played through with it

[00:23:47]
with my brother and and my cousin.

[00:23:49]
And so it was kind of just like there wasn't too many friends that had it.

[00:23:53]
I think there was maybe three people in middle school that had it.

[00:23:57]
And one one guy wrote his sixth grade report on it.

[00:24:00]
I remember that he was like my favorite gift that I ever got was Metal Gear solid.

[00:24:04]
And I was like, all right, cool.

[00:24:05]
But then like after that, there really wasn't that many people

[00:24:09]
that were into it in my like immediate circle.

[00:24:11]
And then I had another friend when I like moved and changed schools.

[00:24:14]
And then we played through that.

[00:24:16]
That was the same guy that I played MGS to together with.

[00:24:19]
And he's been a guy that I've talked to Metal Gear with.

[00:24:21]
But like, I'm like, hey, man, did you play snake eater?

[00:24:24]
And it's like, ah, no, I missed that one.

[00:24:25]
I'm like, oh, you play for it.

[00:24:26]
No, I didn't have PS3.

[00:24:28]
And it's like, I can't talk to you about Metal Gear, man.

[00:24:30]
Like it's like so it's like I would have people that were like, yeah,

[00:24:33]
I played Metal Gear solid to us.

[00:24:35]
It was fun.

[00:24:36]
Didn't play anything else though.

[00:24:37]
And I'm like, you don't get it then.

[00:24:38]
Like that's, I mean, you're getting a small piece of it,

[00:24:41]
but it's that's not the level on that I'm at on this at all.

[00:24:45]
So yeah.

[00:24:46]
And then as far as like the music tying into it, I think being inspired

[00:24:51]
by the music that's in Metal Gear solid is definitely something that happened.

[00:24:56]
The mix that they like the mix of genres that Metal Gear brings to the table,

[00:25:01]
like really just shows off Kojima's like diversity

[00:25:05]
when it comes to applying music to situations, I think he's really good at that.

[00:25:08]
You know, he's got like good music selection.

[00:25:12]
It can go from tense, moody, like background music that's not doing too much

[00:25:17]
or like really melodic.

[00:25:18]
You know, if you look at the older, the retro MSX two games,

[00:25:21]
like I love the soundtrack to Metal Gear two, Solid Snake.

[00:25:26]
Some of the like those are just so real.

[00:25:28]
Yeah.

[00:25:29]
Like classic, the textures, the chips that they were using back then to make them.

[00:25:33]
I've done a few covers and remixes, but I, you know,

[00:25:37]
there's something about that that era that that sound, you know,

[00:25:40]
that was coming out of those chips that are just like, Chef's kiss.

[00:25:43]
So yeah, a lot of people have told me my music will remind them of certain type things

[00:25:47]
like, oh, yeah, I feel like I'm infiltrating a thing or like I'm sneaking around.

[00:25:51]
I get more like hotline Miami comparisons and like that that kind of like genre

[00:25:55]
where it's that like gnarly kind of electronic.

[00:25:58]
But I've done songs definitely that are similar to Metal Gear in nature.

[00:26:02]
And like I've had albums and song titles that are references.

[00:26:06]
I think like my song corridors, that was like a direct imagery of Gray Fox,

[00:26:12]
kind of like when you're walking down that corridor, you know, the bloody hallway.

[00:26:15]
And it's like, that's kind of what I had in my mind when I did that.

[00:26:18]
I have a song on my second album called Retaliation.

[00:26:22]
I had just finished watching the MGSV trailer

[00:26:26]
when Venom Snakes just walking down the hall and, you know,

[00:26:29]
he slowly turns more and more bloody.

[00:26:30]
And, you know, that was the Retaliation Breeds Retaliation trailer.

[00:26:33]
And so that like that quick little theme like got me in a mind state where I was

[00:26:37]
like, let's write some music that's, you know, it's about retaliation

[00:26:41]
and like that feel and that mood.

[00:26:42]
So I would say Metal Gear has definitely lended itself to my creation a lot,

[00:26:46]
but it may not be directly inspired like the music itself, if that makes sense.

[00:26:52]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:54]
Like were you a band kid in high school when you were playing these games

[00:26:56]
or did you get like into music like later in life?

[00:27:00]
I started music just as like I was like six years old.

[00:27:03]
I had a little Casio keyboard and I would just play by ear.

[00:27:06]
You did.

[00:27:08]
Yeah, you did. That's awesome.

[00:27:09]
Yeah. I had a little sampler on it too, where you could like talk into it,

[00:27:12]
record your voice and you could play it down and like, yeah, it was great.

[00:27:17]
But then around like, yeah, around middle school, a band came around as the elective.

[00:27:21]
And I was like, let me try Saxophone.

[00:27:23]
I like I like how that Saturday night, Saturday night live sound, you know,

[00:27:27]
how that blaring saxophone sound.

[00:27:28]
I like Kenny G. I want to learn how to do that.

[00:27:31]
And then I didn't like the way that the reeds smell and I didn't like the taste of wood

[00:27:34]
and I switched to drums.

[00:27:37]
Yeah. So I went over to percussion at that point in seventh grade.

[00:27:41]
And then that's why I was like, oh, drums are my thing.

[00:27:43]
Like I got this and that turned into like mallet percussion where I wasn't just

[00:27:47]
playing the drums, I was playing the xylophone, the bells, all the like

[00:27:49]
noted instruments because I knew how to play piano and all these dumb

[00:27:54]
not to be shitty, all these dumb drummers didn't know how to read music.

[00:27:58]
But but really drummers know how to read rhythm.

[00:28:01]
But like when it comes to notation, it's a whole different thing that they

[00:28:04]
aren't required to learn necessarily.

[00:28:06]
So it's like they know the rhythm of the notes.

[00:28:07]
But anyway, I was the only guy that knew how to read the notes.

[00:28:10]
So they would stick me on on the noted stuff, on the noted instruments for the most part.

[00:28:14]
I did that, you know, all throughout middle school and then high school came around.

[00:28:19]
And that's when I switched over to drumline.

[00:28:21]
And that was a lot of fun, just like being in a group, you know, and you're just like

[00:28:25]
dependent on each other to all hit the right notes and make a make a sweet beat happen.

[00:28:29]
But yeah, it was a lot of drums, a lot of, you know, mallet percussion.

[00:28:33]
I was in like the pit on like the sidelines for some songs.

[00:28:36]
I was marching bass drum and I would put on this the quint, you know,

[00:28:40]
the tenor drums where it was like five, you know, yeah, as heavy as hell.

[00:28:45]
But yeah, you know, it's been music like my whole life.

[00:28:48]
And I think, you know, just just having that like that musical background, like

[00:28:53]
and just the just enough like education in it where it's like, OK,

[00:28:57]
like I'm no expert on music theory or anything like that.

[00:28:59]
I didn't like fully dive into that side of it.

[00:29:02]
I'm more like Nick Cannon and drumline where like if you play it, I see you and I'm like,

[00:29:06]
all right, cool, I got that.

[00:29:07]
Repeat it back. All right, I got it.

[00:29:09]
But I can read the sheet music too.

[00:29:11]
Just just, you know, there's levels to this music theory.

[00:29:15]
Sure. Definitely not in the the full mastery zone yet.

[00:29:19]
But I am learning every day and trying to improve.

[00:29:22]
So, yeah, band definitely helped that.

[00:29:24]
The name of this episode is now going to be a conversation with fingers,

[00:29:27]
parentheses, the Nick Cannon of percussion.

[00:29:32]
Well, I guess I guess that leads me to ask because it seems very, you know,

[00:29:36]
cheesy in a sense of talking about musical influences.

[00:29:39]
But you just brought a percussion like is sort of your history.

[00:29:42]
And, you know, we're talking about Jank Jank earlier.

[00:29:45]
And that does seem to have, you know, a lot of your stuff does have a very

[00:29:48]
full on the floor, percussive, sort of like, you know, get your body

[00:29:51]
moving style and sort of sprinkling the stuff.

[00:29:53]
Is that is that like where you start when it comes to like musical influences?

[00:29:58]
Like, is that something you like to like feel that first and then

[00:30:01]
trickle in the other stuff? Or is it just more like I got something?

[00:30:04]
So you're saying like start starting with drums, like starting just with drums?

[00:30:06]
Yeah, like that just it seems like that's your, you know, yeah.

[00:30:09]
That'll normally be like, I mean, like, you know, my my band teacher taught me

[00:30:13]
is like, you know, drums are the foundation, you know, if they're not there,

[00:30:16]
you're really not going to feel much, you know.

[00:30:18]
So it's like, you can start a song without drums and it's like, all right.

[00:30:20]
But it's like, when those drums hit, that's when all of a sudden everybody knows

[00:30:23]
what to do. You know, it's like you're you're now conducting everybody

[00:30:26]
where their head should be landing and telling where they should, you know,

[00:30:29]
how they should be dancing pretty much.

[00:30:30]
If you clap on one and three, you're doing it wrong.

[00:30:33]
You should be clapping on two and four.

[00:30:35]
So, you know, I think as a drummer, yeah, I definitely I put in a lot of,

[00:30:40]
you know, drum heavy stuff, but I try to make it not the the star.

[00:30:46]
And that's another thing that my band teacher taught me that stuck with me.

[00:30:49]
He was like, a good drummer, you don't really notice.

[00:30:52]
They're just there and they're not messing up or anything.

[00:30:55]
It's just like they're there and they're filling in the gaps perfectly.

[00:30:58]
They're subdividing, you know, where you're not supposed to be.

[00:31:01]
And they're syncopating over here and giving you everything else that you need.

[00:31:05]
But you're not necessarily noticing.

[00:31:06]
I'm not saying, hey, look at me.

[00:31:08]
And that's I try to do that more like melodically.

[00:31:10]
Like I'll have the drums going and then I'll bring in a melody and it's like,

[00:31:14]
oh, look at that. That's new.

[00:31:16]
And I think that's that's like a good thing with music is you try to you give them

[00:31:19]
50 percent expected stuff and 50 percent unexpected stuff.

[00:31:24]
And so if you get that resolve and, you know, you get the you get the shock of like,

[00:31:28]
oh, I'm expecting that to take that turn here.

[00:31:30]
And I think with this jank junk song in the middle of it,

[00:31:33]
it does like a complete pull the e-brake, do a 180,

[00:31:36]
slide into the other lane and start driving the other direction kind of move.

[00:31:39]
It's really cool. Like I like how it turned out with Vector.

[00:31:43]
We just basically put like a record break on it.

[00:31:45]
And then his section of the song starts up and it's just like this.

[00:31:48]
But it but it all flows together.

[00:31:50]
It's it's cohesive and it doesn't make you go, wait, what?

[00:31:53]
So I think, yeah, having that driving

[00:31:56]
four on the floor, you know, that house beat behind it is

[00:31:59]
is just going to keep you going through that, you know.

[00:32:01]
So it's very important.

[00:32:02]
Yeah, I would say it does drive a lot of my stuff for sure.

[00:32:06]
So, yeah, I got to say I like I didn't want to like ask how the sausage was made

[00:32:10]
in a sense, because I, you know, I've been trying to keep up with Twitter and all that.

[00:32:13]
I'm not a big Twitter guy.

[00:32:15]
But when it seems like when you sent the track to Vector,

[00:32:19]
he sort of added his flavor towards the end.

[00:32:20]
So you say that record break piece.

[00:32:23]
I kind of like that because I was going to ask, well, what did it start?

[00:32:25]
Did you give him a beat?

[00:32:26]
Did he, you know, kind of roll from there?

[00:32:28]
So it's nice to know that it's sort of like, oh, I like what I heard.

[00:32:31]
And I I put my little spin on it and then we, you know, collabed.

[00:32:35]
Make it like a real real.

[00:32:36]
Yeah, I like that.

[00:32:38]
Yeah, that's pretty much how like I like I like doing collabs.

[00:32:41]
I think it's it's fun.

[00:32:42]
You're going to get a different result than if it were just you, of course.

[00:32:45]
You know, so like I did a song last year called Tombstone,

[00:32:48]
and I did that with my buddies, Mentor Mint and Goth Mystery Mafia.

[00:32:52]
And the idea was like, I was like, hey, I got this cool little patch right here.

[00:32:56]
And I've got a cool melody and it's really simple.

[00:32:59]
And that's, you know, like I was like, the simplicity here is going to help us.

[00:33:03]
And so I sent it to all three guys as a midi file.

[00:33:05]
Like so basically I had like an idea of like what this song was going to do.

[00:33:09]
And like so the midi file is basically like like digital sheet music for your

[00:33:14]
computer to tell, you know, which notes to play.

[00:33:17]
So I would send them that and then say, hey, man, use whatever voices you want to

[00:33:21]
use, whatever instruments, whatever patches, go crazy, go nuts, have fun.

[00:33:25]
And it's like, when you tell someone to do that, they're like, oh, OK,

[00:33:28]
I can do like my own style and my own thing.

[00:33:29]
It's like, yeah.

[00:33:31]
And that's what I told Vector with this song.

[00:33:32]
I was like, dude, here's here's the here's the midi file.

[00:33:35]
Here's what I've got.

[00:33:36]
Like you hear out starting.

[00:33:37]
I've got this whole like disco funk thing going.

[00:33:39]
All right.

[00:33:39]
Now you do what you would do if you were like, if you were to receive this midi,

[00:33:43]
how would you do it?

[00:33:44]
And then we'll turn it around and we'll figure it out.

[00:33:46]
We'll make it cohesive.

[00:33:47]
And with this song, he actually did go back and like redo it.

[00:33:51]
We were originally going to have three people on this.

[00:33:53]
And then the third person got too busy.

[00:33:56]
And so then that kind of changed it up because we were leaving a slot for that

[00:33:59]
third person. We didn't want to go too heavy.

[00:34:01]
And then we're like, all right, third person's out.

[00:34:02]
Go full out.

[00:34:03]
You know, and so that's kind of that's how we we did that is just just sending it

[00:34:08]
back and forth and going, yeah, I like that part.

[00:34:09]
Maybe adjust that part and that'll you know, that'll work out here.

[00:34:12]
But it's it's a full like back and forth kind of thing normally.

[00:34:15]
But yeah, I mean, he every time he sent me something, I was like, this sounds great.

[00:34:19]
And then he would be self critical and be like, I don't know.

[00:34:20]
I don't like this part.

[00:34:21]
I'm going to go back and work on it some more.

[00:34:22]
It's like, OK, man, that's fine.

[00:34:25]
But yeah, we ended up with something pretty good, I think.

[00:34:28]
Yeah, I love it.

[00:34:30]
Yeah, man.

[00:34:31]
So like if you could score any video game then or any film, have you considered that?

[00:34:40]
Is that a reality for you?

[00:34:42]
Scoring would be like scoring an entire film or scoring an entire movie.

[00:34:46]
You got to realize that's like hours and hours and hours of music for a game.

[00:34:51]
And then, you know, for the for the movie, you got, you know, whatever the running

[00:34:54]
time is two hours.

[00:34:55]
And I think about that and I go, wow, this this whole album was 32 minutes.

[00:35:00]
Or this whole album I made was 45 minutes.

[00:35:03]
Like, oh, that's nowhere near that amount of music that you'd have to to make.

[00:35:07]
And I think Ludwig Forssell was talking about with Destranding.

[00:35:10]
He was like, yeah, it was like over like eight or nine hours worth of music that I had to make.

[00:35:15]
And not all of it even went into the game.

[00:35:16]
And it's just like, dude, that's so much music that you have to stretch.

[00:35:21]
Like nine hours.

[00:35:22]
Think about that of like making something that lasts nine hours.

[00:35:26]
And they're all different.

[00:35:27]
And they're all different songs.

[00:35:28]
And it's like, so the even thinking about scoring something that huge is intimidating.

[00:35:35]
But I think there's there's another way to do music.

[00:35:38]
Kind of if you think about it like Katana Zero, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that game.

[00:35:43]
That game basically.

[00:35:45]
Zero. Yeah.

[00:35:46]
And shout out to Ludwig and shout out to Wic recordings that I've done an official

[00:35:51]
remix for that game.

[00:35:52]
That's out through Wic recordings.

[00:35:54]
But yeah.

[00:35:55]
And basically the way they did that game soundtrack is they're like, hey,

[00:36:00]
this guy Ludwig has some awesome music.

[00:36:03]
Let's.

[00:36:04]
And like he made it like years ago.

[00:36:07]
And let's use that.

[00:36:08]
And then there's Bill Kiley over here.

[00:36:10]
Let's use his music that he made years ago that's not related to this at all

[00:36:14]
and just throw it in here as the stage music because it just kind of fits.

[00:36:17]
And I think that's more what I could see more for me happening.

[00:36:20]
Like my my albums are called VGM.

[00:36:23]
And it doesn't stand for video game music.

[00:36:25]
It stands for vague genre music because most video game music is like

[00:36:30]
if you call something video game music is like, what the hell does that mean?

[00:36:32]
You know, it's like this could be a ballad.

[00:36:34]
It could be techno.

[00:36:35]
I mean, if you look at Metal Gear, the genres go all over the place, you know?

[00:36:38]
It's surf rock.

[00:36:40]
It could little.

[00:36:41]
Yeah, Metal Gear has has a surf rock entry for sure.

[00:36:44]
Yeah.

[00:36:44]
So in a way, I feel like the video games are such a good entry for new music.

[00:36:49]
This I like most of the music I've come across this year has been through video

[00:36:53]
game, be it, you know, low roar, v.

[00:36:57]
Death Stranding.

[00:36:58]
I'd never heard of low roar before.

[00:37:00]
Yeah.

[00:37:00]
Now I know who that is.

[00:37:02]
I recently played Haven.

[00:37:03]
That soundtrack is amazing.

[00:37:06]
And I don't know.

[00:37:07]
It seems like there's more and more attention being put to sound design

[00:37:11]
and the development of soundtracks for video games.

[00:37:15]
And the stakes are a little bit higher.

[00:37:17]
Yeah, they're definitely starting to get like the licensing money and stuff

[00:37:20]
where they can like reach out to these things.

[00:37:22]
And now they're reaching out to the bands and the bands are going, hell,

[00:37:25]
yeah, we want to be in a video game where it was like it used to be like,

[00:37:27]
oh, video game.

[00:37:28]
No, I'm good.

[00:37:30]
The times are kind of shifting with like how like movies and TV,

[00:37:33]
it's like now video games are like the number one earning thing.

[00:37:36]
So it's like nobody goes to movies.

[00:37:38]
You know, it's like, I don't know.

[00:37:39]
It's definitely changing.

[00:37:41]
So yeah, I think I think more like licensing my tracks out.

[00:37:44]
Like I would love to, for some company to hit me up like, hey, we like this track.

[00:37:47]
We want to use in our game.

[00:37:48]
Perfect.

[00:37:49]
I've got I've got this album called PGM.

[00:37:52]
It was made for this for this use specifically.

[00:37:55]
That's that's what that series of music is.

[00:37:57]
It kind of, you know, I joke about it being big, John, or music,

[00:37:59]
but it is music designed to be put in video games.

[00:38:04]
Like that's kind of it's got those slow layers where it builds on top of each other.

[00:38:07]
And you've got like a big, you know, swell, and then it kind of calms back down.

[00:38:11]
And then it can be looped again.

[00:38:12]
And I think that's like what video game music has going for it is like you can

[00:38:16]
listen to it over and over and over and it not be annoying.

[00:38:19]
That's like the thing that you have to look out for with with writing music

[00:38:22]
for video games is like it's something that's normally catchy and you can sit

[00:38:25]
there and listen to it for 10 minutes while you have the game paused.

[00:38:28]
Yeah.

[00:38:29]
I don't know why, as soon as you said that, I'm going to take you for a ride.

[00:38:33]
Tomorrow, we're going to Capcom to just started blaring in my brain.

[00:38:36]
One of the best songs ever.

[00:38:38]
Oh my God, I would loop that Jesus Christ.

[00:38:41]
Jeremy, I'm going to come to you years from now and I'm going to knock on your

[00:38:44]
door and I'm going to say I have a feature in development.

[00:38:47]
I need you to score my feature film.

[00:38:51]
How long is it?

[00:38:52]
To put it in perspective, though, I did have a composer score three original songs

[00:39:02]
for a 15 minute short.

[00:39:03]
So yeah.

[00:39:04]
And that's like like short projects and stuff like that.

[00:39:06]
It's like, yeah, I could definitely do it.

[00:39:08]
I mean, I did score a video game a few years back called St.

[00:39:12]
Kofa and that was a really small indie game that two people were.

[00:39:18]
I'm sorry, it wasn't two people.

[00:39:19]
It was more than that.

[00:39:19]
But they were working on it.

[00:39:21]
The people that I knew were working on it as a university project.

[00:39:26]
And it's on itch.io.

[00:39:28]
But let's see, that was back in 2016.

[00:39:31]
But it was basically five stages that I had to write for and then like a title

[00:39:37]
theme. And I was like, OK, this will be easy.

[00:39:40]
And then they kind of just gave me like, hey, this is going to be the planes.

[00:39:43]
And this is they gave me like art direction and like some concepts and stuff.

[00:39:46]
I was like, OK, so give me some like musical references that you, you know,

[00:39:50]
would maybe want to pair up with this.

[00:39:52]
And they're like, yeah, we're thinking like Zelda, Temple of Time vibes mixed with some like,

[00:39:57]
so they would kind of give me a direction.

[00:39:59]
And then I was like, OK, I'm picking up what you're putting down.

[00:40:01]
And then I would just go to work and then send them stuff and go, how about this?

[00:40:04]
And they go, a little too happy or a little bit, you know, whatever.

[00:40:07]
And then I would make adjustments and then we, you know,

[00:40:09]
pretty much just came to to the final product that way.

[00:40:13]
But yeah, that was a fun experience.

[00:40:14]
So like I'm definitely open to working and scoring stuff.

[00:40:17]
It's just like, yeah, when you talk about scoring a whole game by yourself,

[00:40:20]
it's like, that's a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:22]
So shout out to Lude Wake for getting down in those trenches.

[00:40:28]
I mean, yeah, his work on MGSV, I was listening to some of that today,

[00:40:32]
even just like driving around just that OK, the OKB zero and like angering mantis.

[00:40:37]
Like if you listen to those like those songs are nuts.

[00:40:40]
Like just they but they're not the ones that people really show around and talk about.

[00:40:45]
They're like, oh, Sins of the Father.

[00:40:46]
It's like, yeah, of course, great song.

[00:40:47]
But if you get into that real atmospheric, like gritty stuff where it's

[00:40:51]
it's not like melody, it's just all these like creepy textures and a

[00:40:54]
ticking clock in your left ear.

[00:40:56]
It's like, what the hell is going?

[00:40:58]
It's like, that is some really exciting stuff to listen to and to think about writing.

[00:41:02]
It's like, that's that scoring mindset where it's just like,

[00:41:05]
this is the music that's happening during some crazy scene.

[00:41:08]
And it's kind of in the background and it's really accentuating what's going on.

[00:41:11]
So, yeah, writing stuff like that, it's complex.

[00:41:15]
And you you literally have to write to the video of what's going on,

[00:41:18]
because you're hitting stabs and big things that are happening.

[00:41:21]
So I think scoring you're more like writing along to visuals that are already there.

[00:41:25]
I'm not I'm not exactly sure how they did it.

[00:41:27]
But it's, you know, all those things are happening and they're edited together.

[00:41:30]
When they hit, it's like this big orchestra swell and you're like, wow,

[00:41:33]
I'm feeling this tension.

[00:41:34]
Yeah, what a cool vehicle to deliver B sides to because those cassettes

[00:41:38]
being hidden throughout the world.

[00:41:39]
Like I mean, obviously, like when the the licensed stuff comes on,

[00:41:45]
it's like, OK, Joy Division, cool, aha, cool.

[00:41:48]
But whenever you get get those B sides kind of like demo stuff

[00:41:52]
or whatever stuff that didn't fit anywhere, like some of that stuff was like

[00:41:57]
super dope in MGS five.

[00:41:59]
Like greed.

[00:42:00]
And yeah, that's that's the it's a shame because it gets like slept on.

[00:42:04]
You know, it's like, ah, there's no one's really going to hear this really.

[00:42:07]
Yeah, I didn't go to Shaq number 13 in the back half of the African map.

[00:42:10]
So I missed I missed that tape.

[00:42:13]
I missed that banger.

[00:42:14]
It was back there.

[00:42:15]
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:18]
I wanted to ask before we kind of shift into metal gear territory

[00:42:23]
just because we're we're coming up on like the thirty thirty five,

[00:42:26]
thirty six minute mark.

[00:42:27]
So obviously, I want to kind of take us into the second half of this.

[00:42:31]
But before we dive into that, I wanted to ask, I mean, is there any other

[00:42:34]
like non MGS information that you wanted to touch on before we kind of take

[00:42:40]
things into like metal gear heavy territory for the remainder of the interview?

[00:42:47]
We'll do plugs and stuff later, I'm sure.

[00:42:49]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:42:50]
Yeah, that's that.

[00:42:52]
No, we're good enough about me and my music and.

[00:42:58]
Well, so you just mentioned you just mentioned sins of the father

[00:43:00]
and we had the pleasure of talking to both Stephanie Justin and Donna Burke

[00:43:04]
on this podcast before.

[00:43:06]
Shaq, Donna Burke.

[00:43:08]
Oh, yeah, Donna Burke is amazing.

[00:43:10]
Like she is great human, like even outside of her singing,

[00:43:13]
like I could like talk to her all day long.

[00:43:15]
She's amazing.

[00:43:16]
Yeah, she did a reaction thing with I did the official unofficial

[00:43:20]
movie remix thing with her last year.

[00:43:22]
And I got like I got like the runner up thing with that.

[00:43:24]
So she did she recorded a little reaction video and that was she was really nice.

[00:43:27]
So yeah, yeah.

[00:43:29]
And so I was going to I was going to ask me and having

[00:43:31]
remixed that hanging on a thread for the movie.

[00:43:36]
At any point, have you considered like reaching out to her

[00:43:39]
and actually doing like a collaborative thing, even if it's not

[00:43:43]
for like an official project or anything?

[00:43:45]
I have reached out to her and it's basically right now is kind of like

[00:43:50]
a busy time to try to like take on side stuff for her.

[00:43:54]
She's she's been she was doing this was months ago when I asked,

[00:43:58]
but it was right when she was starting up, you know, doing that tour and stuff.

[00:44:01]
And so I've reached out and we've I've talked to her management and stuff.

[00:44:05]
I've like proposed an idea of like doing a cover of Calling to the Night together

[00:44:10]
and like just having her just sing a part for, you know, for an arrangement that we would do.

[00:44:16]
We've we've like yanked her voice out of stuff before and put it in there,

[00:44:20]
you know, unofficially and she's commented on it.

[00:44:23]
But yeah, I mean, that might happen down the road.

[00:44:26]
You know, I think I think a lot of people are kind of stationary right now

[00:44:30]
and looking for stuff to do that the tours have slowed down.

[00:44:32]
So yeah, thanks for reminding me, actually, I need to.

[00:44:36]
I love it.

[00:44:38]
Well, so I just want to ask real quick, Jeremy, have you played peace walker?

[00:44:43]
I have played peace walker.

[00:44:45]
OK, so I just want to ask you one quick question.

[00:44:48]
Did you feel more emotion when you were killing the horse or the boss in MGS three?

[00:44:55]
I mean, that poor horse, you know, you got to you got to think about its family and stuff,

[00:44:58]
you know, I mean, the boss, I mean, you know, all right.

[00:45:02]
So this is a throwback.

[00:45:03]
I know exactly what you're referencing.

[00:45:05]
I didn't feel anything the first time I killed the boss because it was such an

[00:45:09]
onslaught of information that I still didn't even know she was like a good guy

[00:45:12]
at that point. I was like, what the hell's Eva's working for China?

[00:45:15]
What? Hold on. I got to. Oh, yeah.

[00:45:19]
Like I didn't realize the gravitas of that situation when it was happening,

[00:45:22]
while it was happening.

[00:45:23]
So like, yeah, I definitely like, but going back and now knowing everything that I do.

[00:45:27]
Yeah, of course, I'm not a monster.

[00:45:32]
Man, peace walker does have some emotional stuff going on in it, man.

[00:45:35]
Like a lot of people, a lot of people knock it, but I personally loved that scene

[00:45:40]
when big boss is like in there with the AI pond.

[00:45:43]
He's just like, tell me why?

[00:45:45]
Like he's just like, and that's the thing.

[00:45:48]
People are like, oh, man, his voice is ridiculous during that scene.

[00:45:50]
I'm like, dude, he's choked up and he's like begging a computer.

[00:45:54]
Why it took away, you know, it's just like, yeah, it's an emotional moment.

[00:45:58]
So like, I don't know.

[00:45:59]
I hate when people are like given voice actors a bad time and it's something

[00:46:02]
like that. I thought he nailed that part.

[00:46:04]
That was one part that I went, he still got it.

[00:46:06]
But then like I checked online and I was like, oh, that part's stupid.

[00:46:09]
I'm like, I hate online sometimes.

[00:46:11]
Yeah, I will say I feel like peace walker.

[00:46:16]
Dude, it's so weird because I remember I remember feeling like, OK,

[00:46:21]
MGS is done after four, right?

[00:46:24]
And then I remember picking a peace walker and thinking like, OK,

[00:46:27]
portable ops, whatever, it's just going to be some like guidance, fun thing, whatever.

[00:46:33]
Peace walker by the end of it, I was like, I love these characters.

[00:46:37]
Yeah. And when the trailer for five came out or ground zeroes came out

[00:46:40]
and it was like, oh, it's a direct continuation.

[00:46:43]
I got so stoked thinking like, pause is going to be there.

[00:46:47]
She's there. Chico is going to be there.

[00:46:50]
And we're going to talk to Amanda.

[00:46:52]
And then it's like, no, strange love is dead inside of a container offscreen.

[00:46:57]
And it was like, I think, I don't know.

[00:46:59]
I mean, I've come to peace with the fact that the things I like about V

[00:47:03]
are not the things that I thought I was going to like about it.

[00:47:06]
Yeah. But I really do wish in like an alternate reality

[00:47:09]
that there would have been like a like a peace walker story sequel.

[00:47:13]
You know what I mean? Yeah.

[00:47:15]
They ditched a bunch of characters, no, what you mean?

[00:47:17]
Yeah, it's like they just kind of rid them off.

[00:47:19]
And it's like, yeah, Chico, he had bolts in his ankles.

[00:47:22]
So, yeah, he didn't swim after that whole thing.

[00:47:26]
You know, we zoomed in on those bolts real hard.

[00:47:29]
So this whole Chico is quiet thing really didn't add enough too much.

[00:47:33]
But I don't know, maybe they scooped them up.

[00:47:35]
Crazy things have happened in middle gear.

[00:47:37]
For sure. For sure.

[00:47:39]
It is a shame that that concept art that they had for Chico

[00:47:42]
when he's got the hook and he's got the.

[00:47:44]
Oh, my God, that would have been great.

[00:47:46]
He just like pop up like some

[00:47:47]
Grey Fox character and be in and out.

[00:47:49]
You're like, what the hell was that?

[00:47:50]
You know, that that would have been a perfect inclusion.

[00:47:52]
But no, he did.

[00:47:53]
Between between that game and Hitman,

[00:47:57]
I still think to this day, how amazing would it be

[00:48:00]
if you're in the middle of a mission

[00:48:02]
and then you start getting hunted by someone you don't realize is hunting you?

[00:48:06]
Yeah, it would have been an amazing intro to Chico

[00:48:09]
where it's like, what the fuck is following me?

[00:48:11]
And then it turns out it's him.

[00:48:13]
You know what I mean?

[00:48:14]
Yeah, that would be awesome to have that as a separate game play.

[00:48:17]
But one game that did that great was the first Watch Dogs,

[00:48:20]
like just like infiltrating someone's thing.

[00:48:22]
And all of a sudden you were getting hacked and it was like, oh, no.

[00:48:24]
And then like you just you just had this like one on one thing

[00:48:26]
with somebody that they're trying to to, you know, just like outsmart you.

[00:48:30]
I actually have a clip of me online, like outsmarting somebody

[00:48:33]
by just hiding in the bushes like Metal Gear.

[00:48:35]
Like I had my wall.

[00:48:36]
I had like I did like a wall press against the bushes.

[00:48:38]
The guy didn't see me and I was wearing camo green pants.

[00:48:42]
And like I was just like crouched down and the guy ran right by.

[00:48:45]
I mean, I was like, see kids, this is why I need to play Metal Gear.

[00:48:47]
You learn life skills for other games.

[00:48:51]
I was a lot of like missed opportunities with MGSV,

[00:48:54]
but like I enjoyed the hell out of it.

[00:48:55]
And I played over 300 hours of it on like that first playthrough.

[00:48:59]
So it's just like I got plenty of game out of that game.

[00:49:01]
Totally. And it's like I can understand where people are wanting to see other things.

[00:49:05]
But it's like the story is done.

[00:49:06]
You can fill it in like, you know, man,

[00:49:08]
it's and went off somewhere.

[00:49:11]
And yeah, OK, cool.

[00:49:12]
You can you can fill in the dots from here and get to Metal Gear one.

[00:49:16]
Yeah. For me, that was like I was like, perfect.

[00:49:18]
The big mystery that they needed to solve was how the hell did big boss survive

[00:49:23]
a NATO air strike? Oh, he didn't. It was another guy. OK, cool.

[00:49:26]
I'm satisfied now because that was always by me. I'm like, wait, what?

[00:49:30]
Yeah, for sure.

[00:49:31]
Well, and I do feel like to some extent it would have been.

[00:49:34]
I think I don't know.

[00:49:35]
Maybe it was because of years and years and years and years and years of following

[00:49:38]
the series, but I think everybody just expected like a huge bombshell,

[00:49:41]
like it's over, like kind of a thing.

[00:49:44]
Yeah. And the way they advertised it, it was like, you're going to see him become

[00:49:47]
that bad guy that you all know. It's like, hi, he's a good guy.

[00:49:51]
So yeah.

[00:49:54]
Yeah. So, you know, as a musician,

[00:49:58]
surely the music of Metal Gear you've you've mentioned, you know, look like

[00:50:03]
four cell quite a few times already.

[00:50:06]
So can you talk to us about what kind of impact the Metal Gear series has had on you

[00:50:13]
as a musician and your feelings on the scores in these games?

[00:50:17]
I guess, do you have any favorite pieces or motifs or anything from

[00:50:23]
any of the Metal Gear games?

[00:50:25]
OK, yeah, definitely.

[00:50:28]
Love the love the stuff that they did in Metal Gear Shallot 2.

[00:50:32]
I love Twilight sniping.

[00:50:33]
That's like one of my favorite ones.

[00:50:36]
Let's see. The hashtag team MGS2.

[00:50:38]
Thank you. Damn right.

[00:50:40]
The way that they like mixed together like orchestral stuff with this like

[00:50:43]
hyper techno, like I love that.

[00:50:46]
That was such a cool like hybrid of music.

[00:50:49]
And I think jazz stuff too.

[00:50:50]
Yeah, fortune steam, baby.

[00:50:52]
Fortune steam.

[00:50:53]
Arms Depot is so good.

[00:50:55]
Arms Depot on all day long.

[00:50:57]
Just like you.

[00:50:59]
It's great.

[00:50:59]
In the middle of this episode, I'm just going to cut in the entire MGS2

[00:51:02]
soundtrack from top to bottom. Perfect.

[00:51:05]
It's a four hour claim. Here we come.

[00:51:09]
Yeah. And like, I think the the original Metal Gear soundtrack

[00:51:13]
is just like engraved in my head, you know, like just that

[00:51:17]
we were just talking about it the other day, like the the warhead.

[00:51:22]
The warhead storage music, you know, it's just got that baseline

[00:51:24]
that's just so simple and just sits there just that down, down, down, down, down.

[00:51:30]
You know, it's just it's just sitting there just like repeating for a while.

[00:51:32]
And then that choir comes in and you're like, all right, I'm sneaking around.

[00:51:35]
It's like that music played in two sections of the game

[00:51:39]
when you're in the tank hangar and when you're doing the warhead stuff.

[00:51:42]
So it's just like that that played a lot for me and like got really ingrained

[00:51:46]
in my head. Now, I love that slow, like build up, you know, it's just

[00:51:51]
you can tell that's sneaking music, you know, it's got that little side

[00:51:54]
little shuffle in the drums, kind of.

[00:51:56]
So I go back and forth between MGS2 and MGS1 as like favorite soundtracks

[00:52:01]
for me all the time, because MGS1 has got such good texture work, man.

[00:52:06]
Like all the little like twinkly sounds.

[00:52:09]
It's so good.

[00:52:11]
They use some I've like looked into it and I've tried to like get those sounds

[00:52:14]
into my computer and it's like it's some Roland thing that costs like

[00:52:18]
it's like two thousand dollars to buy it nowadays.

[00:52:20]
But it's like it was this little sound bank that, you know, you would then hook

[00:52:23]
up into a into a keyboard and it had all the textures loaded.

[00:52:27]
And yeah, they're they're very good.

[00:52:29]
And that's basically like what a lot of people call sound fonts, you know,

[00:52:32]
it's like that's kind of what it was for like back in the day with Super Nintendo.

[00:52:36]
But then when they came to PlayStation, they could kind of bring on these

[00:52:39]
like sampled sounds from other gear and load it on the disc

[00:52:42]
and then compress it to all hell.

[00:52:43]
But yeah, that sweet, sweet compression.

[00:52:47]
So I got to say, I love.

[00:52:48]
So I'll throw it out there.

[00:52:49]
The Metal Gear Solid 3, we had just recently done it.

[00:52:52]
But the like the reverb be like slap back, like real plucky guitar,

[00:52:57]
like almost like a little like James Bondi style.

[00:52:59]
Like for their for that caution music, it's so good.

[00:53:03]
Like what a what a great way to like put us in a time era

[00:53:07]
as well as emphasize that we're, you know, we're still in a Metal Gear game.

[00:53:11]
Like we're all here together. You know what I mean?

[00:53:14]
Yeah, I love that.

[00:53:15]
Dude, the fucking flute too.

[00:53:16]
Like I was about to bring up that flute when that flute hits.

[00:53:19]
It's like, oh, we're in a jungle, baby.

[00:53:22]
All right, so good, man.

[00:53:24]
So all right, did you have you come across any like other good

[00:53:29]
Metal Gear Solid samples in like other people's music?

[00:53:32]
Have you caught any? I haven't personally.

[00:53:35]
I just I'm kind of asking for reference.

[00:53:37]
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we're talking about in the notes, like, you know,

[00:53:40]
there's that burial one.

[00:53:41]
Dude, so good.

[00:53:43]
Yeah. And then like everybody else just samples a codec and it's like, OK, like.

[00:53:48]
So like so, so to answer that question, a hard no.

[00:53:52]
No one has really done it good.

[00:53:55]
Like no one has utilized Metal Gear Solid and the most recent one.

[00:53:58]
We were going to talk about this on the Kojima frequency,

[00:54:01]
but decided to just not because it wasn't that interesting.

[00:54:03]
Like recently, logic got David Hader, I guess, to do like a cameo or something.

[00:54:10]
I don't know. I mean, it sounds like it's a cameo.

[00:54:13]
I don't know.

[00:54:14]
But it's basically a recording of David Hader going logic.

[00:54:18]
You I don't even know what it says.

[00:54:19]
Like it's basically him doing a solid snake voice.

[00:54:23]
And he's like, do a mission logic.

[00:54:24]
And like it's like, cool, man, nailed it.

[00:54:27]
And to me, I was like, dude, that was lame as shit.

[00:54:30]
Like shots fired, I guess.

[00:54:32]
But I don't know. It's just to me, I was like, OK, cool.

[00:54:36]
Wait, it was like two on the nose.

[00:54:38]
You know, it was like it was a break in the song, a solid snake sample

[00:54:41]
that he hired him to do.

[00:54:43]
I guess, you know, it's like you can you can pay him 30 bucks

[00:54:45]
and they'll say a line or whatever. It's like, cool.

[00:54:47]
So I don't know. I really haven't seen anything.

[00:54:50]
And that's what I try to do.

[00:54:51]
I try to utilize the sounds.

[00:54:53]
And I did my most recent remix that I did was of the best is yet to come.

[00:54:59]
And when I first did that, it was an instrumental.

[00:55:02]
And then it turned into a full rap song with featuring Black Liquid.

[00:55:06]
He's a rap artist here from Richmond.

[00:55:08]
Liquid.

[00:55:11]
Yeah. So and the thing is, he was like a full full on Metal Gear Solid fan as well.

[00:55:16]
So like, if you listen to that song, he's throwing in references and lines.

[00:55:20]
And it's like, you know, I see the war has changed.

[00:55:22]
You know, it's all this stuff.

[00:55:23]
And I've got about six or seven different Metal Gear Solid samples in there,

[00:55:27]
like just scattered throughout. I have the Codex sound.

[00:55:30]
That's one of them. I have the item pick up sound.

[00:55:32]
I have the ration eating sound.

[00:55:33]
Nice.

[00:55:34]
But I don't even know if people heard them, but it's like it's all part of it.

[00:55:37]
And it's like that's I'm trying to be the guy, I guess, that uses the samples

[00:55:41]
in a cool way. So because I haven't really heard it used in a creative way

[00:55:45]
other than someone throwing in a Codex sound and people go, oh, that's the Metal Gear thing.

[00:55:49]
Yeah. I still need to hear a track open with at the end of World War Two,

[00:55:55]
the world was split into two.

[00:55:57]
Unrelated rap song after that.

[00:55:59]
Yeah. It's like, cool.

[00:56:01]
Way to have a sample. I know how to record stuff, too.

[00:56:03]
Yeah, fucking crazy, man.

[00:56:04]
Amazing.

[00:56:05]
Does the does the same stuff sort of apply?

[00:56:08]
Like for have you found like some great stuff outside of Kojima games

[00:56:12]
like that that really sort of speak to you, you know, in reference to like

[00:56:15]
some of the albums you've released and things like that, do you have anything else

[00:56:18]
to like, you know, sort of catches your your ear?

[00:56:23]
I did mention it earlier, but I think like Hotline Miami, Katana Zero,

[00:56:27]
pretty much like anything like Devolver Digital has been putting out.

[00:56:30]
Like, I love that like retro take on stuff where they're just putting

[00:56:33]
in these like gnarly electronic tracks where you're just like, oh, man,

[00:56:36]
what is this? And then you're like looking up the artist.

[00:56:38]
That's yeah, Katana Zero, I think is like, man, I wish I could have scored that

[00:56:43]
or, you know, had some some of my music in there.

[00:56:45]
Hotline Miami, anything with that like cyberpunk

[00:56:48]
esque feel to it where it's like just that retro wave kind of outrun

[00:56:53]
kind of feel where it's like, this is 80s. Hell, yeah.

[00:56:55]
You know, it's like that's super aware, you know, like, I think I think that

[00:56:59]
kind of stuff is like what my music lends itself to, because I'm just like

[00:57:02]
emulating 80s textures, but bringing a modern contemporary kind of feel to it.

[00:57:07]
So it's like this nostalgic, fresh thing that's kind of like what I try to like

[00:57:11]
make it so it's not just chiptune. It's like, oh, this sounds like a Nintendo.

[00:57:14]
It's like, well, no, it's got modern drums and modern other synths on top of it, too.

[00:57:18]
So yeah, I think I think like leaning towards that, like a retro style game

[00:57:23]
where it's kind of using those 16 bit esque textures, but not like a full

[00:57:28]
chiptune soundtrack. That's kind of like what I would I kind of find myself in.

[00:57:32]
So weird in between.

[00:57:33]
I've never been able to really like classify my music that well.

[00:57:36]
Do you like the do you like the shovel night soundtrack?

[00:57:39]
Oh, shovel night was so good.

[00:57:40]
Yeah, it's so good.

[00:57:41]
That's a good example of like good chiptune where they're using, you know,

[00:57:44]
track or software and I guess it was like Nintendo chips.

[00:57:47]
There is I don't I'm really not into that side of stuff.

[00:57:50]
Like I tried when it when when I first started, it was just way too complicated.

[00:57:54]
It was like, you have to learn like hexadecimal just to program the notes.

[00:57:57]
And I was like, I just want to play it on my keyboard when I touch the button.

[00:58:01]
So yeah, I mean, like shout out to people that do chiptune.

[00:58:03]
It's tricky and it's its own it's its own thing, but I just didn't want to like

[00:58:07]
dedicate the time to learn that just for bloop bloop sounds when I can like

[00:58:11]
just emulate them in a plug in that sounds pretty similar.

[00:58:13]
But you're definitely getting the real deal with those tracker sounds.

[00:58:16]
And that's what that shovel night, you know, that full on like,

[00:58:19]
oh, this is coming out of a Nintendo entertainment system sound.

[00:58:23]
I don't like dislike it.

[00:58:25]
I just don't make it too much.

[00:58:27]
Right. I did a song called Allie Fight on my first album that was just like,

[00:58:31]
it was pretty chippy, you know, and that's probably like as chippy as I've gone.

[00:58:34]
That sounded like chipping in. Yeah, chipping in.

[00:58:37]
That's pretty much like, you know, just like an NES take.

[00:58:40]
The song was called Allie Fight.

[00:58:42]
So I was like, hey, this is like some double dragon, like whatever chiptune stuff.

[00:58:45]
We're just like, you fight and it's this happy chippy music.

[00:58:48]
So yeah, that's awesome.

[00:58:50]
I got to say fingers, if you have not the the game called The Messenger,

[00:58:56]
if that has crossed your paths at all, love it.

[00:58:58]
Love the Messenger.

[00:59:00]
Yeah, he just he does such a great job of emulating

[00:59:03]
like after hearing his process around, it's not just like,

[00:59:06]
I'm going to take the same eight bit track and I'm just going to, you know,

[00:59:09]
filter it through a 16 bit sort of emulation.

[00:59:12]
He actually, you know, had to retract all everything with the right triangle way.

[00:59:16]
You know, all the nerdy, you know, yeah, pusher glasses up, bullshit

[00:59:19]
that everybody cares about when you just listen to it with like, yeah,

[00:59:23]
that same stuff still applies in the synthesizers and everything I use.

[00:59:27]
You've got your square wave and your triangle wave.

[00:59:29]
It's just like that those chips like only had that one specific triangle wave

[00:59:34]
or that one specific square on that chip set.

[00:59:36]
So it's like, yeah, I've seen Rainbow Dragon eyes do some of his streams.

[00:59:39]
He's really talented and nailing that that retro sound without using trackers.

[00:59:44]
They're getting better at it too.

[00:59:45]
There's more and more plugins coming out that's just like,

[00:59:47]
these are the drums that they used on the Sega Genesis.

[00:59:50]
And you're like, that's that Sega Genesis sound.

[00:59:52]
Yeah, I've got a few of those.

[00:59:54]
I want to make more music like that.

[00:59:55]
It's fun. Farty, farty Genesis tracks.

[00:59:58]
Yeah, farty bass.

[00:59:59]
Keeping my eyes open for him.

[01:00:00]
Yeah.

[01:00:01]
Dude, just fucking to Jam and Earl shitting their pants.

[01:00:04]
Oh, my God.

[01:00:05]
Jam and Earl is one of the best fun soundtracks outside of video games.

[01:00:09]
Absolutely. Oh, my God.

[01:00:10]
100 percent that bass line.

[01:00:12]
It's pretty decent.

[01:00:13]
Pretty decent.

[01:00:17]
Well, I mean, so we talked about MGS

[01:00:20]
and how it had that like roll and sound.

[01:00:23]
So on the to Jam and Earl note is metal gear also retro or becoming retro?

[01:00:31]
I mean, are we just like some old dudes waxing nostalgic right now?

[01:00:37]
I think there was that division between like cartridge based games and disc based games.

[01:00:42]
That's kind of like where the line is for me.

[01:00:43]
It's like, here's where they're using chips and the things on the cartridge themselves.

[01:00:48]
And here's where we're like exporting songs over on the disc.

[01:00:51]
So I don't know. I don't know if MGS.

[01:00:53]
I guess MGS one is retro by now, but.

[01:00:57]
Not to my standard.

[01:00:58]
I I I draw that line to MG to Solid Snake.

[01:01:01]
That's how I'm like, that's a retro game.

[01:01:04]
Yeah, it's there's like there were levels of compression on PS one.

[01:01:09]
You couldn't just it was a great CD player.

[01:01:12]
But the the audio quality you can achieve in modern systems right now is

[01:01:17]
ridiculous, you know? Yeah.

[01:01:20]
So yeah, you do hear those like retro sounds from the PS one era.

[01:01:25]
And it's very haunting and chilling, like very synth heavy

[01:01:30]
because it was like two our ears at that time.

[01:01:34]
I think just like what like listening to something in 3D in a video game, you know?

[01:01:39]
Yeah. In hearing footsteps and like.

[01:01:42]
I think that's what made me look here solid.

[01:01:44]
So interesting was not just the music, but the sound design and all of like

[01:01:49]
the game being thought of from an oral way.

[01:01:52]
Yeah, Dualshock, dude.

[01:01:54]
I feel like all of it was like, dude, it's moving in my hand

[01:01:57]
and I can hear the footsteps on the wet pavement.

[01:01:59]
Like what the fuck? Yeah.

[01:02:01]
So I paid attention to like room acoustics a lot in that game.

[01:02:05]
And it was like when you were like walking on different surfaces,

[01:02:07]
like you heard, you know, you heard the cling, cling, cling, you know,

[01:02:10]
of the metal grate beneath your feet or like the splish splash

[01:02:13]
of that one little puddle in the beginning was like and the reverb of the room.

[01:02:17]
That was one thing that they did a great job of just creating atmosphere.

[01:02:20]
So yeah, we heard it, but the genome soldiers sure as fuck did not hear it.

[01:02:25]
I would say the combination between the menu, the menu music of that,

[01:02:29]
of Metal Gear Solid and the the, I guess, the integration that when you hear.

[01:02:36]
Psycho Mantis theme, that's him sort of taking over your mind as the player.

[01:02:42]
The combo of that because that opening theme, it's totally gets forgotten,

[01:02:45]
but it even has like when you hit the start button, it has like the gunshot

[01:02:49]
and it goes like that kind of stuff totally got me.

[01:02:53]
And for a PlayStation game where I was, you know, not playing like maybe

[01:02:56]
another game that maybe rivaled it as far as like focusing on noise

[01:03:00]
and music was like FAMFancy Seven at that point in my eyes.

[01:03:03]
I was playing like, yeah, not NHL 97 who didn't care about you know what I mean?

[01:03:07]
Like it didn't matter.

[01:03:08]
But like hearing that kind of stuff just made it like so special for me.

[01:03:13]
Where I was like, I can I can hear the experience.

[01:03:16]
It wasn't just like, oh, graphics make game good, you know, for a 13 year old

[01:03:20]
Warren at that time. Yeah, it really was like the first game, too.

[01:03:24]
Well, you said like with the DualShock, like I remember before that,

[01:03:27]
it was all in 64 Rumble Pack where it was just like like with everything you did.

[01:03:31]
But like feeling that like subtle variation of the elevator, it was like pumping

[01:03:36]
while you're going up. That was like the first moment.

[01:03:38]
I was like, wow, OK, we're doing something different with this.

[01:03:40]
And so, yeah, Metal Gear Solid, man, just like broke so many.

[01:03:44]
It just did so many things that other games hadn't done.

[01:03:46]
I mean, the Psycho Manus fight alone looked into your memory card,

[01:03:50]
probably violated some privacy.

[01:03:52]
I don't know. But like, you know, I love that game.

[01:03:56]
And that's when people ask me, like, what's my favorite?

[01:03:58]
I just got to go back to that one.

[01:03:59]
And I love all the other ones for different reasons, but like favorite

[01:04:03]
got to give it to MGS1. Sure. Yeah.

[01:04:05]
It's crazy. I mean, are we just super jaded?

[01:04:09]
Or is it real that we haven't seen a jump that far in a long time?

[01:04:14]
Because like I feel like other than the first time I tried VR two years ago,

[01:04:20]
I can't think of the last time I had like an oh fuck moment

[01:04:24]
with a video game in like a long time.

[01:04:27]
Yeah, we're getting that diminishing returns, approaching realism and stuff.

[01:04:31]
We're like, yep, still on Canny Valley.

[01:04:34]
Still, I mean, I will say, I think Death Stranding was the most recent one

[01:04:38]
as far as just the seeing the actors and stuff.

[01:04:41]
You know, they were all right, photo realistic or it was like,

[01:04:44]
yeah, that's Tommy Earl Jenkins.

[01:04:46]
Holy shit. Like there was no real like on Canny Valley going on there with that.

[01:04:51]
And I think I think Kojima is the guy that's going to be pushing us

[01:04:55]
in that next direction, artistically or visually or whatever.

[01:04:58]
He seems to be the guy that that does it, you know, and his teams, of course.

[01:05:03]
Of course, Kojima isn't doing all that.

[01:05:04]
But like whoever's working with him, it's like he's like, no, no, no, no.

[01:05:08]
We need to make this like future proof or like this needs to be a step

[01:05:11]
above what's going on.

[01:05:13]
You know, he like has a certain caliber that he wants his work to be seen

[01:05:16]
and normally delivers, you know, totally.

[01:05:20]
That's a good that's a good question, Alessio.

[01:05:23]
I guess I'm trying to think.

[01:05:24]
I feel like maybe like BioShock got me a little bit because I truly felt

[01:05:29]
like a unrealistic world was real based on the game.

[01:05:33]
But I don't I think that's giving the game credit maybe for like how it connected

[01:05:37]
with me. But like because Metal Gear Solid did it, but real but realism.

[01:05:41]
Like I really felt like I was like, oh, shit, I'm a spy.

[01:05:43]
Like, yeah, I'm doing espionage and shit.

[01:05:46]
You know what I mean?

[01:05:47]
I mean, the fact that we can still run into 40 year olds on the street

[01:05:50]
and say Solid Snake and they know where the fuck they were when they played MGS

[01:05:54]
one for the first time. I think says a lot demo. Yeah.

[01:05:57]
Yeah.

[01:05:58]
Like the fact that like people that I work with who never play games and they go,

[01:06:02]
oh, you used to be on a podcast, what's it about?

[01:06:05]
And I'm like, oh, Metal Gear.

[01:06:08]
Like the fact that they're like, oh, man, that PS1 game.

[01:06:11]
Whoa. Yeah.

[01:06:12]
Or it's worse when you're like, oh, the guy from Super Smash Brothers brawl.

[01:06:16]
Oh, no. No.

[01:06:18]
From Twin Snakes, flipping off of missiles.

[01:06:20]
Oh, yeah. Oh, Jesus.

[01:06:22]
Yeah. Well, so I do want I do want to ask Jeremy really, really quick,

[01:06:25]
total off book, very quick sidebar.

[01:06:28]
Because we were talking about it earlier where it's like, oh, what Metal Gears

[01:06:31]
have you played? Oh, I played this or whatever.

[01:06:34]
What do you think is the weirdest game in the series to be somebody's first game?

[01:06:38]
Because I'm still convinced that MGS two is the worst place for somebody to start.

[01:06:43]
OK, like not counting like spin offs.

[01:06:44]
So you're saying like, yeah, yeah, core.

[01:06:47]
Metal Gear Asset two. Just tell them it's a card game.

[01:06:51]
See if they come back.

[01:06:54]
Man, weirdest one in the canon series to start on and be confused as hell.

[01:06:59]
I think if you start on four, you're just going to go what?

[01:07:02]
Yeah, fair enough. Four is a good one.

[01:07:03]
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't know.

[01:07:05]
Metal Gear and Nitroid has said he's he's known a guy that started with four

[01:07:09]
and he ended up being one of the most like well versed, well informed guys that he knew.

[01:07:14]
That, you know, because the guy like really dug in and like from that point was like,

[01:07:18]
OK, now I can fill in the dots where at the end that was kind of like the connection point

[01:07:22]
for all of us when we had all the dots, he went like the backwards way.

[01:07:26]
Yeah, it's it's Metal Gear is is definitely deep and complex,

[01:07:30]
but all the information is there.

[01:07:31]
So it's like no matter what order you play it in, you will eventually get it.

[01:07:36]
I do tell people to play and release order, usually

[01:07:40]
if for just references, gameplay nods, you're not going to you're not going to like

[01:07:44]
going back to playing PlayStation one or MSX after you just finished MGSV.

[01:07:49]
Like you're going to you're going to appreciate how everything gets smoother and smoother.

[01:07:53]
And by the time you you finish up, you know, the Phantom Pain,

[01:07:56]
you're like, man, I'm jumping and sliding around.

[01:07:58]
And then if you go back to like, yeah, if you go from the Phantom Pain to PlayStation one,

[01:08:03]
it's like, oh, this sucks.

[01:08:06]
Yeah.

[01:08:08]
Well, I guess on the note of that,

[01:08:12]
do you have any thoughts about the film?

[01:08:15]
Are you optimistic?

[01:08:17]
Have any idea of who should score it or who you would like to see score it?

[01:08:23]
Get Ludwig in there.

[01:08:27]
I think he'd be perfect, man, for the movie, to be honest.

[01:08:30]
I'd like to be featured, have a remix in there,

[01:08:32]
thrown in on the after credit scene or something.

[01:08:34]
Yeah.

[01:08:35]
Throw it out to the universe, make it happen.

[01:08:38]
But no, I think I'm optimistic on the movie.

[01:08:42]
I don't like thinking negatively about upcoming things and dissing artists

[01:08:46]
and, you know, as much shit as I talked on Logic earlier, whatever.

[01:08:51]
That was objectively bad.

[01:08:53]
But with with the visions and the stuff that we've seen from Jordan,

[01:08:58]
he's obviously a fan.

[01:09:00]
I think he wants to do something novel with it.

[01:09:02]
And I think that's what he should do.

[01:09:05]
I think just trying to tell a flat retelling of Metal Gear Solid One

[01:09:09]
without including anything else would be a mistake.

[01:09:12]
I think I would like to see pretty much Metal Gear Solid One.

[01:09:17]
Be, you know, that's a nice, you know, you got a couple boss fights.

[01:09:21]
You got a couple sneaking sections.

[01:09:23]
And then you have a couple of flashback scenes or whatever to explain

[01:09:26]
what happened in Snake Eater and what happened in Zanzibarland.

[01:09:29]
And that's really all you need.

[01:09:30]
Like, I think that's like a cohesive story where, you know, he could see Great Fox.

[01:09:35]
I'm like, oh, I remember you from Zanzibarland.

[01:09:36]
Quick two, three minute, you know, cut to that and then come back.

[01:09:40]
You know, I think if we do it like that, it could it could be a good, well contained movie.

[01:09:45]
And that's everybody saying, this story is impossible to tell in two hours.

[01:09:49]
No, not really.

[01:09:50]
I mean, it's there's a lot jammed in there.

[01:09:52]
But I think you can tell the story of a guy that goes into a place,

[01:09:56]
gets tricked by some people to do a thing that he didn't want to do.

[01:10:00]
And we can show how this has been going on for a long time

[01:10:04]
by just showing the cycle of that of big boss, his predicament.

[01:10:08]
And I think that's what Jordan's going to do, because he's definitely playing around

[01:10:12]
the timelines and all the all the art pieces were just for fun.

[01:10:16]
They weren't representative of what the movie is going to be, or at least that's what he said.

[01:10:20]
So we're not going to see Great Fox fighting a gecko from MGS4.

[01:10:24]
That's bonkers.

[01:10:25]
But I think he just wanted to see that artistically and get some people's

[01:10:28]
gears going like, OK, this this is what this world is.

[01:10:31]
And we could we could make this happen.

[01:10:34]
And I think what he did with Kong Skull Island,

[01:10:37]
he's, you know, he's good at directing action.

[01:10:39]
And those I still don't know what they're called.

[01:10:42]
I've on the first episode of the Kajima frequency, I called them those weird

[01:10:45]
invisible dinosaur things.

[01:10:46]
I still don't know what they're called, but they went invisible.

[01:10:49]
And I was like, if Great Fox did that same visual effect, that would look sweet in a movie.

[01:10:54]
And that was when I, you know, that was before the movie was even announced.

[01:10:57]
But he was kind of like claiming to say he was going to do it.

[01:10:59]
And Oscar Isaac, I think he's been given some bad lines to read from Disney.

[01:11:06]
So I'm not going to judge him on on the Star Wars, you know, sequel trilogy.

[01:11:10]
I think he I think he's a good actor and could probably nail it.

[01:11:15]
I'm optimistic and I like to, you know, like to just say, yeah, I hope it's good.

[01:11:19]
I'm going to see it.

[01:11:22]
Hopefully I enjoy it.

[01:11:23]
And if not, it's not, you know, it's not the end of the world, whatever, you know,

[01:11:27]
they've got a they've got a good foundation to build off of,

[01:11:29]
because literally all they have to do is watch Escape from New York and they're fine.

[01:11:33]
Yeah, that's pretty much the same.

[01:11:36]
But, you know, I think if Kojima's acting consultant, you know, and he's not on set

[01:11:41]
every day, it might turn, you know, turn out pretty good.

[01:11:44]
You know, I think if he's if he's modeling in it too much,

[01:11:46]
I don't know how he how he's going to do with movies.

[01:11:49]
We've talked about like when when Kojima is given a project or something

[01:11:54]
and they try to like maybe he works best and like restricted like, all right,

[01:11:58]
this is all you got to do.

[01:11:59]
And this is it.

[01:11:59]
But like, if you give him like, hey, man, go nuts, then we end up with death straining.

[01:12:03]
And it's like, all right, cool.

[01:12:05]
I enjoyed a lot of that.

[01:12:06]
But that whole beach scene with Amelie.

[01:12:09]
What the fuck?

[01:12:10]
Credit.

[01:12:11]
Yeah.

[01:12:11]
Credit.

[01:12:12]
And it's just like, I get you're doing your thing, but I didn't really enjoy that.

[01:12:16]
And if that wasn't a movie and I don't know, I just it.

[01:12:21]
I don't know if his game directing that he's very good at is going to transfer

[01:12:26]
over to good movie directing.

[01:12:28]
But I think I think Jordan's got a good eye for it.

[01:12:30]
He's obviously a fan, like I said.

[01:12:31]
So I'm being optimistic for it.

[01:12:34]
You know, I hope I hope it comes out.

[01:12:35]
And I hope it's great.

[01:12:36]
And I hope it lets more people know about Metal Gear Solid.

[01:12:38]
And that's kind of like, I love talking to new people about Metal Gear Solid,

[01:12:42]
introducing them to it and then seeing them get into it.

[01:12:44]
It's like, hell, yeah, yeah, Tony was good shit.

[01:12:46]
So like for me, I'm just like, yeah, bring it on.

[01:12:48]
Like, let's I want more Metal Gear games just because Kojima is gone.

[01:12:51]
I don't want them to stop making them.

[01:12:53]
I want more Metal Gear stuff.

[01:12:55]
It's way more than Kojima himself.

[01:12:57]
You know, there's a whole team still at Konami that still is passionate about the games.

[01:13:01]
And there's there's really just there's a lot of higher up.

[01:13:05]
Executives that are saying, yeah, cool idea.

[01:13:08]
No, you know, it's like they want to do these cool games that we've wanted to do.

[01:13:12]
And after Kojima left, they were like, well, yeah, let's we're playing around

[01:13:15]
this Fox engine. Yeah. Hey, you know, it works for this tower defense.

[01:13:18]
Let's throw this in.

[01:13:19]
It's going to be fun. Yeah.

[01:13:20]
And they put it out there as like a side, you know, just a spin off game

[01:13:24]
that wasn't supposed to be taken seriously.

[01:13:26]
And guess what? Everybody did.

[01:13:27]
They took it seriously.

[01:13:29]
Got mad about it.

[01:13:30]
And they were offended because it wasn't what they wanted.

[01:13:33]
But they also were saying they didn't want Konami to make Metal Gear Solid 6

[01:13:37]
without Kojima. So what the fuck do you want to do?

[01:13:40]
Yeah, that's that's like the Internet is just so like self-defeating.

[01:13:44]
But it's like, we want cyberpunk now.

[01:13:47]
Oh, here it is. It sucks.

[01:13:49]
Oh, no. I shot myself in the foot.

[01:13:51]
Put it back in the oven.

[01:13:52]
Quick, quick, quick. Yeah.

[01:13:54]
So I think we need to let creators kind of do their thing and top stop telling them

[01:13:58]
what to do and being so entitled of like what our expectations are

[01:14:04]
and just let people create, you know?

[01:14:05]
I mean, I think I think if we shut up and let Jordan do his thing

[01:14:08]
and there's not all these people in his ear, I think he can crank out something good.

[01:14:12]
Totally.

[01:14:13]
So what you're saying is we need to learn to let go.

[01:14:17]
As Metal Gear fans.

[01:14:19]
That's like people play these games and they do not absorb the lessons, man.

[01:14:22]
It's like, are you paying attention back there?

[01:14:25]
Yeah. Yeah. 100 percent.

[01:14:28]
Well, yeah, I think the one thing with like, look,

[01:14:31]
everybody wants a new Metal Gear game, I think in our hearts, right?

[01:14:35]
And we can pick on survive in a sense.

[01:14:38]
But I got to say, survive look good.

[01:14:39]
I think the big thing and you I think you recently brought it up on

[01:14:42]
on one of your Kojima frequency pods was I think the main thing

[01:14:46]
that I want them to create Metal Gear for us, because I think the Fox engine

[01:14:50]
is eventually just going to become irrelevant and just for it already has, man.

[01:14:55]
Yeah, right? Like, yeah.

[01:14:57]
I want them to use it so that they are forced to update it.

[01:14:59]
And it's it's lower cost to keep it going because for that, what,

[01:15:04]
three years that it was sort of was like up top.

[01:15:07]
It did sort of top other, you know, yeah, unity is like the big one, right?

[01:15:10]
You know, unreal.

[01:15:12]
And it's just Fox has a real chance.

[01:15:15]
But if they don't do anything with it other than MGS3 cut scenes for Pajinko.

[01:15:20]
They're doing PES.

[01:15:21]
They're doing PES.

[01:15:22]
I think they stopped doing that, too.

[01:15:24]
I mean, that's the thing like Fox.

[01:15:26]
No, like they stopped using that for the they're using unreal for that now.

[01:15:30]
Yeah, it's like it is kind of an antiquated, unupdated system

[01:15:33]
that they've made they've made better shit in five years.

[01:15:36]
Like, but yeah, it's a shame that that that got underutilized

[01:15:40]
because I love the feel of that engine.

[01:15:42]
Like it's survive and MGSV.

[01:15:45]
Both games that came in that were just like, oh, man.

[01:15:47]
It's so good.

[01:15:48]
Pt. Yeah. Yeah. Pt.

[01:15:50]
Look good. Yeah, it did.

[01:15:52]
Well, cool. So, Jeremy, just to close this off.

[01:15:55]
I wanted to read off a listener question.

[01:15:58]
Unfortunately, when we put together our like call,

[01:16:00]
we forgot to allow people to say who the hell they were.

[01:16:04]
So anonymous listener number.

[01:16:08]
I don't know. One nine seven five says,

[01:16:12]
one of your remixing Metal Gear music or putting together a longer form set.

[01:16:15]
Are the are there specific influential traits that you find yourself going back to?

[01:16:19]
Or is it mostly a what sounds cool in the moment thing?

[01:16:23]
Side note, I'm a big fan of your stuff.

[01:16:24]
I listen to Kojima frequency every time it comes out.

[01:16:26]
Great show. Hey, thanks.

[01:16:28]
I appreciate that, buddy.

[01:16:30]
So as far as sets go, I think he's talking about like DJ sets

[01:16:34]
and like throwing together a set.

[01:16:35]
Yeah, that's that's its own thing, too.

[01:16:38]
It's definitely you kind of want to have a roller coaster ride for that's

[01:16:43]
kind of like what I try to do.

[01:16:44]
It's like you have you have some uptime where it's like, all right, cool.

[01:16:47]
We're dancing. All right, let's take a break.

[01:16:50]
Like let's let's chill it back down for a minute.

[01:16:52]
And then you want to like get back in there and surprise them.

[01:16:54]
But you don't want to be jarring like to where it's like, oh, God, what?

[01:16:58]
We're doing this now. OK.

[01:16:59]
So I think normally when I do DJ sets, I'll sort all my stuff by BPM

[01:17:04]
and just slowly work my way up.

[01:17:06]
And so it's kind of like you I'll start kind of like the slower jams and work my way up.

[01:17:11]
But then I'll have another song in there that's like half time of what it is.

[01:17:15]
So like it'll be like a 140 BPM track and then like a 70 BPM track.

[01:17:19]
So you'll get that that that half time break of like, oh, OK, we're chilling now.

[01:17:24]
But we're still working our way up the BPM because the next song is going to go

[01:17:27]
cut time, which is twice as fast.

[01:17:30]
So it's like that's kind of my process when I'm doing that, as I try to not just

[01:17:33]
have like banger, banger, banger, banger.

[01:17:35]
You know, you got to have a little rest in between and then hit them back with the

[01:17:38]
bangers again. But yeah.

[01:17:41]
I wanted to I wanted to ask you, I mean, so other than fingers, bandcamp.com,

[01:17:45]
which again, fingers is got a one and a three instead of an I and an E.

[01:17:49]
And that rhymes.

[01:17:51]
Where where do you typically send people as far as like promoting your work?

[01:17:56]
Yeah, I'm on YouTube, YouTube.com slash fingers music.

[01:18:00]
A lot of my social stuff, it's it's spelled the same way as F1, NG, 3 RS music.

[01:18:06]
Just so that's all like one word.

[01:18:08]
Twitter, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, all at fingers music.

[01:18:12]
But if you just Google fingers, that'll pretty much pull you up anywhere.

[01:18:17]
Got. I also have a Patreon, patreon.com slash fingers.

[01:18:21]
Everybody gets like free downloads as I release them.

[01:18:24]
They can get stems and like individual parts where you're getting like just the

[01:18:27]
drums or just the bass, if you want, you know, and mess around with it yourself.

[01:18:30]
Make your own remixes.

[01:18:32]
Yeah, I'm on Twitch every once in a while, not too much.

[01:18:35]
Yeah. Pretty much any social media site.

[01:18:38]
If you type in fingers, you'll find me.

[01:18:40]
That's awesome. And 100 percent, like and we've always been pretty,

[01:18:45]
pretty gung-ho about waving the flag for any and all MGS content.

[01:18:51]
But like Kojima frequency, 100 percent, go subscribe.

[01:18:54]
Everybody go check out that podcast.

[01:18:57]
Can't plug you guys enough.

[01:18:59]
And I don't know, it's it's it's been interesting to see how everything

[01:19:03]
shakes out over the years, because I think after the first few months of us

[01:19:06]
starting back in 2015, there were a few shows that popped up.

[01:19:12]
I think it was like Foxcast, one other one other podcast.

[01:19:16]
And it's so weird to see like every few years, something will pop up for a few

[01:19:20]
weeks or a couple of months and then just kind of completely disappear again.

[01:19:24]
Yeah, with social media, you can kind of I get why people give up so easily,

[01:19:28]
because it's like I'm putting it out there up or not making views up.

[01:19:32]
It's not. Oh, OK.

[01:19:34]
And then like people just get like I've been releasing music for over 10 years.

[01:19:38]
So it's like I am way outside of that mentality of like, oh, no,

[01:19:41]
people didn't like immediately.

[01:19:43]
That must mean that I suck or that must be.

[01:19:45]
It's like it's getting so hard to get stuff out past the algorithm now.

[01:19:48]
So if you include a link, if you include a tag, if you include,

[01:19:51]
if you say the wrong word or if they detect something in your picture,

[01:19:54]
they're going to nerf the reach of your post.

[01:19:56]
So it's it's really hard to get content out.

[01:19:58]
And if you don't know that, then it's like it just seems like like like

[01:20:03]
self reflection on the product and a lot of people just give up.

[01:20:06]
Right.

[01:20:06]
Well, you also have to build a catalog too, because I mean, one of the things

[01:20:09]
we learned from doing this show is like people are interested in different things.

[01:20:13]
So like they may come for Death Stranding and stick around for everything else.

[01:20:17]
They might come for an interview with fingers and stick around for everything else.

[01:20:20]
Like you never know, you know, came for the fiddles, stayed for the podcast.

[01:20:25]
Yeah, I love it.

[01:20:28]
I love it. Well, cool, man.

[01:20:30]
No, thank you so much.

[01:20:33]
I don't know.

[01:20:34]
Anything else that you want to plug feel free, but

[01:20:37]
bearing anything, barring anything else, I think that that's it.

[01:20:42]
Yeah, I think that's pretty much it on the plugs.

[01:20:44]
Yeah, just check out my music and download it.

[01:20:46]
And if you support, you know, if you want to support it, you can buy it.

[01:20:49]
You can stream it.

[01:20:50]
I've also got my music on pretzel.rox.

[01:20:53]
If you're a streamer out there and you're getting DMCA claims and you don't like it,

[01:20:57]
you can get pretzel.rox.

[01:20:58]
And that's like a it's pretty much like stream safe music.

[01:21:02]
So it's like, I've put my music into their catalog.

[01:21:05]
You use pretzel and they, you know, it kind of like integrates into your stream.

[01:21:10]
You've got background music.

[01:21:11]
It shows who's playing and what the song title is and links where to buy it.

[01:21:16]
And then we get paid every time people use it.

[01:21:18]
So if you want to support artists pretzel.rox is a good way to do it.

[01:21:22]
I learned something new today.

[01:21:23]
That's actually a really good service you guys should check out.

[01:21:25]
That's awesome. Awesome.

[01:21:27]
Well, cool. All our plugs are at the at the front of the intro of the show.

[01:21:30]
So you guys know what to do.

[01:21:31]
And yeah, thanks again, Fingers Music, everybody.

[01:21:34]
Hell yeah, Talking Metal Gear music, hopefully not for the last time.

[01:21:38]
So yeah.

[01:21:40]
Thank you guys again so much.

[01:21:41]
Thanks.